Yes, Warford is getting $5M in dead cap money from the Saints. It strikes me that the Jets can easily offer $8.5M and change from the Winters and Bellamy 2020 cap savings. He would thus be easily making close to $14M for 2020 by signing for the Jets. Of course I do understand that Warford will end up getting what the market will bear, which will likely mean that his new team will have to offer more than $8.5M. But I think Warford would represent a significant improvement for our line, and I believe that the Jets should be right in there with the serious bidding.
Additionally, the Trumaine Johnson cap relief kicks in June 1st.....(helping the Adams/Darnold resigns as well). .
https://neworleans.football/the-sai...the-nfl-heres-what-it-will-mean-on-the-field/ They cut him for speed, seems like they want a line that can move (so do we apparently) and Warford is slow. Still wouldn't mind him replacing Winters.
Just a question. When was the last time we had a 28 year old, 3 time pro bowl player, making a reasonable amount of money for his position and dumped him without a proven player to take his place? You can explain it off any way you want, it doesn't make a lot of sense. Just keep him until his replacement proves he can play, never mind isnt a total bust. Or trade him after the kid proves out in the preseason for any kind of pick.
Again, when you can replace a guy who isn’t good at all with a three time pro bowler for the same price, you do it unless he’s not a scheme fit.
Lol so I say, can we just agree that he makes approx 9M per on avg. And you say, no actually he does make approx 9M per on avg. Ok dude. I guess we agree then. What I’m trying to discuss is a potential valuation range for Warford.
I loved Warford coming out & still love him.Folks need to stop assuming all OLs are the same & that one size fits all. If hes too slow for NO how is he gonna work in a wide split scheme playing out in space on every down? This a phone booth mauling type best suited for short splits. Maybe you can piece him in if the rest of the OL is athletic but this isn’t some no brainer decision. Hes an expensive player who could really struggle w what Jets would ask him to do.
I agree, hes worth signing. Thats not a question talent wise. I just dont think JD is all that interested in bringing him in
Excellent point. I also think JD is a firm believer that surrounded by a much improved and athletic offensive line, a healthy Winters can be very productive and will fit our system. If that was not the case, he would have been a casualty already. So unless he can significantly improve on Winters with our scheme, Winters stays for now. There is no doubt in my mind that if JD saw Warford as a significant improvement over Winters in our split scheme he we would go hard after his services. I don't think the delta impact to the cap is an issue at all.
Just as I don't like the 3-4 D alignment, I don't like the split wide zone or even a straight zone blocking OL scheme. We could have a dynamite man blocking OL scheme with Becton, Warford and Clark. I'm not sure how Lewis, Van Roten and McGovern would fit in, but we'd definitely have holes for Bell and Perine to run through, and I think the pass protection would probably be better as well.
I honestly don't know enough about blocking schemes, but I don't understand why we're employing a blocking scheme that obviously was to difficult for our OL last season, and it's still a question whether the new guys will be any better at it. Lacking this finer understanding, it seems to me like we're continuing the Jets methodology of trying to fit square pegs into round holes, instead of changing the shape of the holes.
I'm no expert by any means, but based on the reading I've done, both Becton and McGovern are very good fits for our scheme. I think Van Roten is supposed to have good movement skills as well. I think you have a point about last season's OL. I don't think that Beacham was a great fit for a wide zone, but could be mistaken. I don't know what kind of blocking scheme the Panthers have used, so don't know how good a fit Kalil would have been if he had anything left (which he didn't). Edoga supposedly has pretty good movement skills so he is a fit. I don't think Shell was a fit, and that's why he's gone. I think Lewis is a fit. I think when a new CS comes in and systems change, there is always a quandry. Do they begin installing the systems they want to run immediately, so that within a year or two everyone knows and feels comfortable/confident in the system even though everyone one on that unit at present may not fit that scheme, or do they use the previous scheme until they can acquire the talent they need to run the scheme the CS wants to run? Obviously, the problem with the former is that they're trying to force square pegs into round holes and the unit may not have much success. The problem with the latter is that the CS may not have a lot of confidence in running a scheme that they don't like, or perhaps aren't even that familiar with. Also, a problem with that approach is that by year two or three, when the team ought to be ready to seriously compete, then they're having to change blocking schemes, which will set their progress back another year or two, whereas if they immediately install the new blocking scheme, there won't be that transition in year two or three, so there shouldn't be anything holding progress back, and supposedly, the new players added to the OL will already know the blocking scheme that the CS is seeking to install, so they will fit in immediately. I think it's probably a bit of pick your poison, but I can see the wisdom of installing their new systems first even if it means trying to fit square pegs into round holes. Usually new HCs are forgiven if the team struggles a bit for the first year or two, while the teams learn the new system, develop confidence, and new players are added that will be good fits in that system. OTOH if a new HC has his OL and the team playing well for his first year or two, but if the team's level of play drops, perhaps precipitously, because of bringing in a new system just as they're supposedly ready to take the next step forward in year three, owners and fans will be less understanding and supportive.
You make a valid point about a new HC/CS having to decide how they want to handle the OL they inherited or added - "pick your poison" as you put it. But my question is: why do they have to make an "all or nothing" decision? Is it not possible to adapt aspects of different schemes to fit the players, as well as adapting the playbook to fit with the talent you have? Why is this not possible? Because this is what I fault Gase for. He was here for the entire off season, including the draft, and while we've all speculated that Macc pretty much ignored any input, still Gase must have had some influence. Even if he had none, he had time to know what he did have and to make adjustments to maximize the abilities of the players he had. Instead, he failed to play his proposed starting OL even one snap in preseason! Even if you say, "Well they were all injured or not in playing shape so he couldn't", then he should have been working overtime to figure out how to best use the 5 guys he DID have working together in PS to start the season. He didn't do that either. He threw his proposed 5 starters into the first game even though they had never played together. What decent HC does that? AFAIK, none. Well he should have ZERO excuses this year (assuming they have a season). He has 5 new, and presumably healthy guys, plus sufficient backups. If we don't see a massive improvement, he needs to go.
If true, that could be a big reason we're staying away. Becton is athletic but man is he big. It might be more fitting to put a smaller shiftier guard next to him than a big plodding mauler. I also don't think Joe D wants to marry himself to any two starters at guard. The tackles are pretty much set and so is the center. But the two guard spots have four-six contenders for them - Edoga, Van Roten, Winters, Lewis, Clark, Andrews will all be in a competition. That's what he wants. He doesn't want to sign someone for $8.5-$9 million and be forced to essentially play him.
I'm a fan of most of your analyses but this one I'm predicting against. Why keep him at 7mm when there's no-one in the league that would pay that? He's cut and then maybe re-signed at market rate which in my opinion is 2.5-3mm. Maybe they're working on a new contract now.
To answer your question as to why they have to make it "an all or nothing decision", I don't think one can do both simultaneously. One can't have half their OL playing in a man-blocking scheme and the other half playing in a wide zone scheme. They have to work together as a unit. Thus the HC, OC and OL Coach have to immediately decide whether they are going to install the system they want to run, even knowing that they have players on the roster that they're going to have to deal with for a year or two, who aren't good fits, or they are going to have to change their system to fit the talent, and wait a year or two until they have the talent on hand to enable them to switch to the system that they are the most confident in and want to run. Neither situation is ideal, but imo it's better to go with the former, and then when they have the personnel in year 3 (assuming that they won't have 5 -10 new OL) and that there will be some holdovers, they will be ready to go to the next level. Don't forget that the blocking scheme an offense uses affects the whole offensive unit, the types of plays they run, and not just the OL. Their system/scheme will have been in place for one-two years, the QB, WRs, RBs, TEs are all used to that system, feel comfortable and confident and they're just dealing with perhaps a new piece or two on the OL or on offense, that theoretically was used to that scheme in college, so all feel comfortable and confident and are ready to go. If the Jets OL and offense takes a quantum leap forward this season, the fans and the Johnsons will forget last year. Conversely, if Gase and Pollack had altered the OL blocking scheme to fit the talent they had last year, then Bell wouldn't have been a good fit, Sam and the rest of the offense may have had to learn that scheme, and whereas it might have suited the OL better, it may have caused more problems with the rest of the offense. Then this year or in 2021 if Gase switched to the wide zone blocking scheme, the whole offense would have had to adjust back to that scheme and its different plays and philosophy. Unless he's just flat out stupid and incompetent, with the time he had, I'm sure that he must have thought it through, and thought that in the big picture, it was better to go ahead and get the team accustomed to the wide zone blocking scheme. That's why they signed Bell in FA, or at least that's the hope. Hopefully Mac wasn't so stupid that he was totally oblivious to the type of blocking scheme that Bell had thrived in with Pittsburgh and didn't know or care what blocking scheme Gase planned to use. With regards to the bolded, there WERE injuries, and unless I'm mistaken, Kalil was added very late, so he didn't have a chance to play them together during TC and preseason. Putting 5 players together on the OL isn't an exact science. It's more art and artifice than science. Neither Gase nor Douglas knew whether they'd be able to develop chemistry, think alike, anticipate what their neighbors on the OL were going to do until they were actually practicing and playing together. Do you think that Douglas would have signed Kalil if he knew ahead of time that Kalil was done and was going to suck? IMO it isn't nearly as cut and dried as you try to make it. Like medicine, and most other things in life, it's trial and error, with a lot of guesswork. As far as throwing his 5 proposed starters together in the first game, I think he had already seen how bad the OL was in other permutations. The only hope he had left once everyone was healthy was to put them together and hope that they would develop some chemistry and work together as a unit. The fact that we will potentially have 4 new starters on the OL (or 3 at a minimum) and that Kalil, Beacham and Shell aren't back should speak volumes to you about the caliber of players we had on the OL last year. I think the bottom line is that it didn't matter which 5 played together or if they have played together every snap from OTAs onward, our OL would have sucked last season because we had players that either were not talented enough (Winters, Harrison, Shell, Beacham), experienced enough (Edoga), or in Kalil's case, was done physically. I think that's why Douglas has been so adamant about signing and drafting players that had positional flexibility this offseason. He wants to give as many chances as possible for the Jets to have a solid OL this season. Becton can play either LT or RT as can Fant. McGovern can play C or OG. Van Roten can play either LG or RG or RT. Andrews can play OG or C. Harrison can play C or OG. I think Clark played all 5 OL positions at UNC-Charlotte, but if not, he could play either OG spot or RT.
