You didn't answer, you just say "'cause Bowles" withouy any actual facts as to why. I have already stated Bowles hiring an oc with spread tendencies as a evidence he would be willing to work with a qb like Lamar. Which,by the way, is an over stated issue. I believe the kid can play drop back qb. He just happens to be fast and smooth too Bowles has some legit issues in his coaching abilities and tendencies. But he has been more liberal in his offensive approach the last 3 years than most defensive background head coaches. So I'm going to have a hard time buying the "but Bowles " argument when it comes to whether to draft Lamar. Sorry I'm going to need a better argument than that
Your entitled to your opinion. I did provide facts: Bowles hasn't shown an understanding of what makes an offense go. While the "O" was doing nothing under Gailey; while he stuck with Fitz despite terrible results; these show me that he has no grasp of offense - if he did, why didn't he do anything? Maybe Morton will be a revelation - so far he's an improvement over Gailey - but I'm not ready to give any credit to Bowles on that. And maybe Jackson can be a drop back QB and adapt to whatever offense he's placed in, but of course that's just speculation, not fact. I'm open-minded, and willing to change my POV as facts present themselves, but you haven't provided any more of those than I have. Have a good night.
Do you really see Lamar Jackson having any sort of sustained success in the NFL? He'll shock the league with his speed early on, but his legs will only last him so long before he's forced to be a pocket passer, much like how Russell Wilson was forced to be a pocket passer when he was banged up, only he was capable of making the necessary adjustments. RG3 was a much better passer coming out of college than Jackson and extremely explosive and we all saw what happened to him. He completed 67% and 72.4% of his passes. It was a pass friendly offense, but he had much better ball placement than Jackson has. I still stand by needing the correct coach to maximize Jackson's legs. Maybe Morton and Bowles can do so. You make a good point about Morton working with Kaepernick, however whomever the coach is needs to be prepared to run a completely different offense like Shanahan did with RG3 in tailoring the offense to him. And the NFL has already seen the rise and fall of the option and 22/23 QB ride play in a short 2-3 year period. I think defenses will be fully prepared for it the next time an RG3 type of quarterback emerges. They were shocked by it when he and Kaep were running it. But I don't trust Jackson being a franchise quarterback for the long haul. I'd much rather go Barkley or offensive line if Darnold stays and Rosen is gone. Everyone complains about Hackenberg's shitty completion percentage and it's obviously apples to oranges given Jackson's ability with his legs, but we'd be dealing with an inaccurate quarterback once again. I'll live to fight another day at the quarterback position rather than take him. Unless we can wait until the second and snatch him up then I'm all for it. Barkley/Jackson/offensive tackle would be awesome.
I think Jackson has a good chance to be a good QB in this league no doubt. He's being prepped. Lamar Jackson sees the field much better then RG3 IMO. The Louisville offense isn't just a spread offense, it has plenty of pro style concepts. Petrino is actually getting Lamar ready for the NFL with this offense. Jackson has to go through reads, and has to decipher the coverage pre and post snap. I think he's faster, more athletic version of Watson with a better arm. A lot of Michael Vick in his game. Very quick release. Watching his games this year, he has to absolutely carry that team. I don't see a lot of NFL level prospects on that offense, you also don't see Lamar making A LOT of mistakes on the field given this responsibility. I think he's a coaches dream and takes the information in like a sponge (unlike Geno Smith). His progress in terms of him becoming a better player, is just amazing from year to year. The coaching staff definitely needs to ensure Jackson scrambles safely and doesn't cause injury to himself. Jackson needs to be consistent in terms of accuracy, more-so when I watch the tape, his body when throwing the football at times is not directed at the intended receiver which can lead to inconsistent accuracy. You see this at times when he throws medium to deep out routes. His arm mechanics are good, but the body mechanics needs improvement. I don't think the RG3 comparison is valid IMO, he plays in a completely different offense. I've seen Jackson make some crazy throws in tight windows, his ball placement can get better as he works on his body mechanics. I don't think he's inaccurate like a Hackenberg at all. I would definitely take Jackson in RD1, perhaps after Darnold and Rosen but I am very intrigued by his potential. Furthermore, here is an interesting link you may want to check out, to me far better then RG3. You don't need to run the RG3 to have him succeed, perhaps his first year you don't throw the entire book at him, so you allow him to ease into the role of a QB that has full control at the LOS. https://www.diehards.com/louisville/film-room-lamar-jackson-best-player-country-getting-better
Completion % is not a very good stat and doesn't take into account context, like offensive schemes, depths off passes, etc. Bobby Petrino's offense is a 100% orthodox one that is built off of PA boots(like Mike Shan, Kyle Shanahan O), stick concepts, sail and other plays that we commonly see in the NFL. If I'm not mistaken, either, Lamar Jackson is responsible for protection calls at the line of scrimmage. The issue with RG3 wasn't "Football IQ", but it was the two injuries that led to the zapping of confidence under pressure in the pocket that made him the outstanding prospect people drooled over. I think Lamar Jackson is battling stereotypical stigmas from many analysts in the media and that's likely one of the main reasons why he hasn't received the hype Darnold/Rosen have to this point. We still have analysts saying he can't play from the pocket, that he needs to change positions, that he's no where near Darnold or Rosen, when he In actuality, he has shown the ability to dissect defenses and function under pressure(see Purdue Game), and he has a quick release that will aid him in working the short passing game that can transfer quite well to the NFL.. Consistency is still lacking in the accuracy department, which happens to be the case with many of his peers and he played poorly against Clemson, but he can/has shown function in an NFL offense. I personally would love to see him in any Andy Reid type O. I'm not sure if Jackson will be be my favorite QB come April, but as of right now, I'm not sure why any Jets fan right would think Darnold or Rosen(who clearly has problems playing against pressure), especially, are a cut above Jackson
Just another thought, Mariota isn't the runner that Jackson is in terms of instinct, but the Titans too have done a good job of incorporating run pass options to utilize that skill of his. Nearly every team, with a mobile QB includes some sort of read option concept(even Alex Smith) to throw at defenses. It's not going to take a Bill Belichick like mind to figure out how to maximize Jackson's skillset.
Fair enough analysis. I'll have to watch him a bit more closely. I don't worry about him as a young pro. I think he will absolutely cut up defenses. It's when the running aspect of his game starts to diminish is why I question whether he'll be able to transition into a full time pocket passer. That, along with the huge injury risk. Once he blows out his first knee (knock on wood that he never does), will he ever be able to recover without having the dynamic running part of his game? I also don't stigmatize him as a player who cannot be a successful pro. I just have longer term concerns for him. Cam Newton is a good example of a passer whom is struggling now and struggled last season as he's been battling injuries and forced more into solely being a pocket passer. It's tough for a player who makes some of their big plays outside of the pocket and using their legs to suddenly be without that part of their game. And then you have Russell Wilson who can still light teams up with his arm, although he has absolutely no protection at all this year unfortunately. Darnold is a lot more shaky than most anticipated he would be this year. He's made some bad throws and hasn't lit the world on fire like everyone expected him to. I like Rosen a lot more at this juncture. I keep drawing the comparison to Stafford because I see him at the type of player that can really be a one man band and instantly make the rest of his offense better. Darnold is striking me more as someone who can be a good professional, but may need more help than Rosen will need. He can still be a very good pro though as well. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Jackson ends up turning into an adequate pocket passer. He's gotten a lot better at it. But I still have my concerns about him.
There needs to be a good balance though in not overdoing it and putting your passer in harms way. Again, Cam Newton comes to mind. Running all those up the gut QB powers seem to have taken their toll on him and he's an absolute freak of an athlete at 250-260 pounds. Obviously Jackson wouldn't be running those plays. You also need to make sure he still makes those plays so that you don't over-limit his ability to make plays with legs, without beating his body up. The Titans have done it perfectly so far (knock on wood), even though Mariota did break his leg last year. Who would y'all compare Lamar Jackson too? The only runner as dynamic as him was Michael Vick really, but he wasn't anywhere near the passer Jackson has been developing into. I'm curious as to what everyone's pro comparison is. Is it Mariota? Is Randall Cunningham the closest the league will have seen? Is it Vince Young? He wasn't nearly as fast but he was pretty damn elusive. It's a shame he was such a head case because the guy knew how to win ball games. He's a good example of a player who was mismanaged by his head coach. But that was probably partly both their faults.
Physically, I think Mariota is the best comparison physically. Jackson probably has more arm strength, but Mariota is superior in some other passing categories. (His accuracy was disgusting, though part of that was because the Oregon offense with him was generally disgusting.) Part of what's helping Mariota a lot in the pros as well is the power run game complementing his own mobility. I'd note that this is distinct from simply 'a good run game,' which really any QB benefits from. Mariota, with his raw speed, is an inherent running-threat complement to a traditional power back, because it creates another set of mismatches at the linebacker level - the thumpers you want to stop DeMarco Murray/Derrick Henry and shed blocks from the Titans OL are rarely also going to be able to function as a QB spy against a guy with Mariota's legs. Combine with play-action, maybe a TE who runs a good seam route, and you can get a lot more out of your QBs legs without even having to use them much. What happened with Clemson specifically, was that the DLine was fanatic about keeping their containment at all times, especially early in the game to set the tone. They treated him like a running back and took lanes away, reducing his ability to scramble, focusing on shrinking the pocket from all sides rather than trying to beat blocks one-on-one and go for the sack like they might against a less mobile QB. Forced to work from the pocket, Jackson wasn't able to stand there and throw enough dimes to beat the secondary. Admittedly, that Clemson pass rush is a bear, and for a guy who's so usually able to create personal space with his legs it was probably a little unnerving to not have that option the same way. Jackson could be a successful pro, I think, in a place that used a power run game to complement his legs in a similar way. Barring finding a team that will use the right scheme combination to help him be successful, I think he needs more time focusing on working from the pocket, in terms of QB development. I know he'll almost certainly declare, but I can't help but think that it'd be worth considering going back another year if he has eligibility, if it's going to give him another year in a pro style offense.
Big test for Lamar Jackson tonight against Bradley Chubb from NC State, one of the better edge rushers in college.
Yes indeed, not sure what I want to focus on. Maybe I'll throw the Yanks on a little later and see how Jackson does early on. Then again, I got Winston going up against the Pats in Fantasy Football. Baseball is just so hard to watch for 9 innings
I went heavy on the Thursday game in draft kings. So NFL front and center Lamar on breaks with quick check in on the yanks to start.
Did either of you boys @FJF @101GangGreen101 watch? I forgot they were on and wouldn't have paid much mind with TNF and the Yanks on anyways. I see his line of 26/47 for 354 yards, one touchdown and one interception. 19 carries for 73 yards and two touchdowns. Was he making big boy throws? One things for sure, he's an incredible college player. He'll definitely be there as a Heisman finalist. I can see them giving it to Barkley or Mayfield though as the panel definitely hates the idea of giving someone back to back Heismans.
I didn't watch the entire game, so I will need to go back and watch it. He dropped an absolute dime early in the game: That's a throw he consistently makes at the college level this season. However, he has no supporting cast. Here was his interception. Sometimes, he misses on throws, but he can make some excellent throws in tight windows and he stays in the pocket even though he can run as well. Tried to make that throw into a very tight window, timing was off and just a bad decision. Lamar Jackson has been dealing with pressure all season with no much help. That's going to cost him games as he accounts for so much of the offense. I think his passing has improved a lot. I think he's still a first round prospect. That NC State line got to Jackson all game.
So far he's my assessment of Jackson Pros - Short to intermediate accuracy is very good - Can throw on the run accurately - Makes reads pre and post snaps - Can play within the pocket and shows patience - Dynamic runner - Quick release - Can make throws in tight windows; ball placement ability is VERY good when he has time to throw. - Prefers to pass over run even tho a dynamic runner Cons - Lack of a deep ball in terms of accuracy and maybe even strength (Vick had a stronger arm; Jackson more accurate) - Bad posture on certain throws (directs body away from receiver). This correlates to his accuracy. Footwork is questionable. - Needs to get stronger still - Good ball security, but likes to hold onto the ball with one hand If Jackson had better targets on the outside and a line that could pick up blitzes perhaps we would have a better reading on Jackson's deep ball, but I see him here as a first round prospect. Still would take Rosen or Darnold over him in terms of rankings. However, I really like Jackson's potential as an NFL qb, he's only scratching the surface in terms of being a pocket passer.
http://settingedge.com/nfl-draft-video-lamar-jackson-passes-of-10-yards Footwork needs work for sure. Posture is kind of bad on some throws. I think Lamar and the Jets are a perfect fit. Check out https://twitter.com/SettingEdge tomorrow --- they will be doing a full presentation on Lamar Jackson
