He never got over turning the ball over a ton. It was his trademark move dating back to USC. And that's with a tremendous Oline, and decent overall offensive talent. There's only so many high priced pieces you can keep together. At some point, the QB has to elevate his play to be one of the more valuable pieces, a la Ben, Flacco, Russell Wilson. Sanchez was never going to be that type of player. Darnold is a much more talented player imo, in a much worse situation to start his career.
As I have said, I agree that a good GM listens to any trade inquiries coming from teams about any/all of his players. Listening is one thing. Actively shopping is another. Accepting a deal after listening is yet another. One needs to listen because the other team could blow one away with a deal too good to turn down. One needs to listen because then one gets a clearer, more realistic understanding of how the rest of the league values that player, and it can help when making decisions about extending or re-signing that player when his contract is up. It's also a part of establishing and maintaining a good communication channel and relationship with every GM in the league. We are in agreement about not trading guys who have years left on their contract.
RB has been awful as well michel as a 1st rounder with chubb on the board? that's a jets level fuck up in the draft. that's like taking kyle brady over warren sapp damien harris (3rd) shane vareen (2nd) steven riddley (3rd) Maouroney (1st) it's not just WR I never said they trade for all their talent. See now you are moving goal posts because you know you are wrong. I said they use all phases as you should. Draft, trade, and free agency. Always look to improve your roster any way possible. they don't simply go all we do is draft. they are one of the most active teams in the trade market always.
But the only activity in the trade market they really engage in is to deal off players for draft picks. They aren't very active in free agency either. You've cited two examples in 20 years of trades they've made. I cited 11 players they've drafted that have been successful there. They don't draft or use bell cow runningbacks. They draft one to run and one to receive ala Ridley and Vereen, White and Michel. Give me another trade they've made to go get a player outside of Moss, Sanu and I guess Danny Shelton? And they recycle offensive line talent through the draft like no one in league history.
Yes, you're right, Sanchez was never a great - or even VG - QB, but he was good enough when he had the pieces around him. While everyone blames Sanchez for the Jets failure, they completely ignore the ownership and FO and CS that were the bigger problem. They seemed to believe they could build an impregnable defense, so that their mediocre (at best) offense wasn't a factor. I suspect that the salary structure tends to pay offense - especially skill players - more than defense, so it's cheaper to try and build a great defense and hope the offense can give you just enough. In any case, Sanchez was not the biggest problem.
they aren't active in FA? they are when they have room. the pats are always using up all their cap space and that is with brady taking a hometown discount. brady should be making an extra 10-12 million a year more then he is. lets look at their transactions as far as trading for players and signing FAs 2019 2nd rounder for sanu Signed antonio brown traded undisclosed pick for Jermaine Eluemunor Signed WR Cameron Meredith Acquired TE Michael Roberts from Detroit for an undisclosed draft pick. Signed LB Jamie Collins. Signed WR Demaryius Thomas Signed TE Austin Seferian-Jenkins Signed DB Terrence Brooks, WR Bruce Ellington, WR Maurice Harris, TE Matt LaCosse, DL Mike Pennel and DE John Simon Signed RB Brandon Bolden Signed OT Cedrick Lang. That's not even them all just most of the "bigger ones" and I tried to not include the maintenance signings during camp and what not 2018 Signed DE Adrian Clayborn, RB Jeremy Hill and OL Matt Tobin April 24, 2018 Signed OL Ulrick John. April 6, 2018 Signed WR Jordan Matthews. April 4, 2018 Signed OL Luke Bowanko and TE Troy Niklas. Signed WR Eric Decker. 2017 Acquired TE Dwayne Allen from the Indianapolis Colts for an undisclosed draft selection. Signed CB Stephon Gilmore and DB Duron Harmon Acquired WR Brandin Cooks from New Orleans and DL Kony Ealy from Carolina. March 14, 2017 Signed RB Rex Burkhead. March 13, 2017 Signed DL Lawrence Guy. Signed RB Mike Gillislee. Signed CB Malcolm Butler and TE Matt Lengel. Signed LB David Harris Acquired WR Phillip Dorsett from Indianapolis for QB Jacoby Brissett Acquired CB Johnson Bademosi from Detroit for an undisclosed future draft pick Acquired DE Cassius Marsh from Seattle for undisclosed draft selection man that was a big year. they only had 4 draft picks and whiffed on all 4. traded 5 draft picks away for players including their 1st rounder. and made a splace in FA with gilmore being the huge name (5 year 65 million) here is a list of their 2017 trades as well with more detail March 8: The Patriots obtained tight end Dwayne Allen and a sixth-round selection and sent a fourth-round selection to the Indianapolis Colts.[112][113] March 10: The Patriots were involved in a trade in which they sent their second-round selection to the Carolina Panthers for defensive end Kony Ealy and a third-round selection.[114] March 10: The Patriots were involved in a trade in which they sent their first-round selection and a third-round selection to the New Orleans Saints for wide receiver Brandin Cooks and a fourth-round selection.[115] April 29: The Patriots traded a fifth-round selection to the Kansas City Chiefs for tight end James O'Shaughnessy and a sixth-round selection.[116] August 29: The Patriots traded a 2018 seventh-round selection to the Cincinnati Bengals for linebacker Marquis Flowers.[117] September 1: The Patriots traded cornerback Justin Coleman to the Seattle Seahawks for a 2018 seventh-round draft selection.[118] September 2: The Patriots traded a 2019 sixth-round selection to the Detroit Lions for cornerback Johnson Bademosi.[119] September 2: The Patriots traded quarterback Jacoby Brissett to the Indianapolis Colts for wide receiver Phillip Dorsett.[120] September 2: The Patriots traded their 2018 fifth and seventh-round picks to the Seahawks for defensive end Cassius Marsh.[121] October 30: The Patriots traded quarterback Jimmy Garoppolo to the San Francisco 49ers for a 2018 second-round selection.[122] so again their sucess is skewing your perception of what they actually do.
I gotta disagree with the notion we were ignoring the offense back then. We had 4 first round Olineman on the team. 4 of them, along with an excellent Brandon Moore. Tanny also made moves to bring in veterans like Edwards, LT, Holmes, and TRich, and we had underrated guys like Cotchery and Greene. We spent more money on offense than we did on D, but the D was tops in the league. It was a great situation for any QB to step into. After a few years, training wheels need to come off, and we still didn't have a QB. That to me was the biggest problem, and Tanny doubling down with the expensive Sanchez contract extension was the end of it.
The majority of those signings ARE roster maintenance signings. No one ever said they only play players that they draft. But the core of their roster IS built through the draft. We'll agree to disagree. Just because the players don't play well elsewhere doesn't discount the fact that they draft well for their own needs. Belichick KNOWS he is going to whiff on draft picks. So he does himself the favor of compiling as many picks as possible. It's also good to note that a lot of those signings were vet minimum pick ups. 2019 - 3 3rd rounders, 2 4th rounders, 2 5th rounders 2018 - 2 6th rounders, 3 7th rounders 2016 - 1 2nd rounder, 3 3rd rounders, 3 6th rounders 2015 - 3 4th rounders, 2 6th rounders, 2 7th rounders. 2014 - 3 4th rounders, 3 6th rounders Even more extremes in 2009 and 20010. The two years combined they had 7 2nd round picks and three 3rd round picks. Picks include Gronk, Sebastian Vollmer, Aaron Hernandez, Patrick Chung, Brandon Spikes, Ted Larsen and of course some busts. But that's what they do. They play the volume game. And when the rookie contract expires they let them go and get the comp pick. And so on. It keeps going. There's a reason they also always have the best special teams in the league in terms of kicking game and kick coverage. As it pertains to the Jets, the point is that we don't have the luxury to deal our third fourth and fifth round picks for players who haven't done much in the NFL and need a fresh start or are leaving their prime like the players you've suggested in Callaway, Trufant, etc. We need to build a core and identity before we can deal those picks.
lol what? collins, gilmore, antonio brown, hightower are maintenance signings? what players have they drafted and are making an impact for them? obviously brady and edelmen but they are over a decade ago. who in the past 5 years have they drafted that is anything more then a role payer for them right now? winovich has been a good situaitonal pass rusher as a rookie, but none of their other rookies this year are doing anything outside of a punter. their draft class last year isn't doing anything either. wynn is hurt. michel is a JAG RB splitting time with burkhead, white, and bolden. none of the others are playing. then we go back to 2017, they drafted only 4 players 1 has a total of 11 tackles on the season but is an ok depth guy, 1 is out of the NFL, 1 has only played in 6 games in his 1st 2 years and is on IR this season, and the other was released as a rookie, spent 2 year with the bills and is out of the NFL. The draft before that they got a solid G in thuney and nothing else. I mean technically brissett is playing really well, but they traded him to the colts for a medicore WR. meanwhile brisset is playing like a pro bowler. horrible trade for the pats. Giving up a young QB who is playing at a pro bowl level for a scrub WR.Their last 4 drafts have pretty much 0 impact on their season right now. at least in the jets last 4 we have edoga, cashman, Q williams, darnold, foley, adams, maye, jenkins, shell, and lac all contributing for us. I said NE drafted well back in the 2008-2012/2013 but in the past 5-6 years their drafts have been awful and they are still winning SBs drafting is not why they are winning
They made an excellent under the radar move last year for Trent Brown. I said it at the time that was a stellar move, even tho it received very little attention, and it worked out great for them. Based on the money Brown got in FA this year, they will prob get a comp pick to boot. In terms of FA, they love going after CB's which has also paid off big time for them.
The Giants still haven't learned. They think they can take our trash and coach it up, make it good (Geno, Williams). Makes no sense. I could kinda understand it if the Giants were contending and they're hoping that maybe he could give them a push down the stretch run but they're not going anywhere this season. Give all that up for a tiny bit more than half a season rental (if they don't re-sign him which I doubt they will)? Stupid. The only thing I can think of is they're so hell bent on beating the Jets in a few weeks that they hope he's motivated enough to have a big game against the Jets which is entirely possible because the Jets have made just about every defense they've faced this season look like the Purple People Eaters, Steel Curtain, 1985 Bears, 2000 Ravens. Still give all that up just to beat the Jets?
it doesn't matter what leo does, he wasn't in the future plans. the options were let him play the rest of the season and hope he nets a comp pick in 2021 or trade him for what we could . I won't call it a haul, it"s a good deal for us, we'll see if it is for the giants
I have. Many, many times. I've strained my eyes trying to see what they see in this guy and I still can't see it. He sucks. Outside of two or three games last season he sucked. He's sucked all of this season. Invisible the majority of the time. No impact whatsoever. So yes I have considered the possibility that I could be wrong but I've seen too much of this guy I don't think I am. He absolutely, positively sucks @ss!!!
Ignore above post - hit wrong button In regards to what I bolded - if Gettlemen made that trade to " assure " beating the Jets than he is a fool.
I doubt that's the reason he traded for Leo, but it was an odd acquisition for a team that's not going anywhere this year.
I agree. Unless Leo figures it out over these 8 games but regardless he's gonna cost a ton of money to resign....
I was listening to Mike Francesa the other day on the drive home. He said he didn't think Gase & Shurmer would get fired after this season EXCEPT if the teams lost to two teams for the Jets he mentioned losing to Miami & the Giants for the Giants he mentioned losing to the Jets and another team I forget which team it was. So who knows? The Jets o-line and Gase's playcalling is bad enough to allow Williams to have a career type game against the Jets then again Williams sucks enough that even against the Jets o-line he still could get stonewalled LOL.
Probably Miami also or maybe in the Giants case the Skins....they play pretty much the same teams down the stretch. I think the Jets will beat Miami Sunday but if they don't I think that could be the last nail in Gase's coffin.
I don't think we lose either way. The NY media may try to paint it that way, but we weren't signing him to a new big contract. He has zero sacks and he just isn't a fit or believer in the Jets' system. Teams don't trade quality OL unless they have someone just as good in line behind them and they're offered something too good to turn down (big overpayment). Few teams even have that good of an OL, much less quality depth waiting in the wings. The Jets weren't going to burn draft capital trading for an OL. Gase and Pollack need to adjust the blocking scheme and Gase needs to change his system. He needs to have Sam run more rollouts and bootlegs like last year, use more 2 TE lineups and max protect, and do a better job with his playcalling.
