You can't be serious. A better winning % at 2-1???? Quincy Carter played against the Browns and Cards, two of the worst teams in football that year, before going off on a crack binge. We also started 5-0 with Pennington before he got hurt and won at San Diego in the playoffs with him hurt. You're going out of your way to distort facts now just because you don't like the guy. Quincy Carter now gets credit for us making the playoffs in 2004? That's almost as good as you saying Tom Brady isn't cutting it in the big games anymore. You're going to top these again tomorrow, aren't you?
If my memory serves me correct, after his second shoulder injury, didn't the FO renegotiate his contract with lots of incentives? They put those incentives to cover their asses financially, because it was highly unlikely for him to come back and have a successful year. Well, lo and behold he came back, won Comeback Player of the Year, and took us to the Playoffs. Now that he's due his money he earned, people don't wanna give it to him and want him cut. Hmm...go figure.
Yes, you are correct. So Pennington's had to earn his money from square one twice and people still bitch about it. Then again, the same guy was just bitching about Tom Brady because the Pats' D couldn't hold the lead Brady gave them with 3:00 to go in the Super Bowl. The nerve of him leaving 3:00 on the clock, what a choker!
I don't think the Jets make the playoffs in 04 at 8 & 5? The facts are Quincy who was terrible on the same team as Chad won at the same rate as Chad. Chad didn't carry the 04 team the D and the running game did. The 5 and 0 start was great and Chad did zip against NE in game 6 against a good D.
If you're going to give him credit for 'taking us to the playoffs', then you have to give him the same amount of accountability for how he played last season. You can't have it both ways. When you meet incentives, it becomes guaranteed money. He got the money he earned.
If you're going to make it a math equation, Carter played 3 games, and we won 2 against the worst 2 teams in the NFL, Pennington played 13 games. Even disregarding the level of the opponents, your % or "rate" falls flat because with Carter you're dealing with less than 25% of the sample size as you are with Pennington. Not to mention the Jets won on the road against a division champion in the playoffs with an injured Pennington who shouldn't have even been playing. At the same time, the key player on the marvelous D, John Abraham, was sitting out to protect his case of the sniffles and his contract. Yet we're going to blame Pennington for any shortcomings the team had that season, while crediting everyone including Quincy Carter for the success, correct? Sounds objective to me. And let's not leave out the fact that if we had even a competent kicker we were playing in the AFC championship game with an injured Chad Pennington.
It's as objective as saying Chad took as a kick away from the AFC champoinship game against Pittsburgh. I don't blame Chad at all for his injury, just acknowledge that we had a very good team around him, very good and he got injured. Game over the guy is a backup.
Of course we had a good team. You don't get that far without a good team or without a good QB. Which is why it's out of balance for everyone to be blaming Penningtone solely for last year, especially when he came back from the injury and we made the playoffs again in 2006.
If Chad is not good anymore and our team is nowhere near what it was in 02 or 04 what is the sense in starting him? To further prevent Clemens or Ainge from getting the reps they need? To get to the playoffs and lose so we can continue the same Jet fan at least we made the first round loser mentality?
What did Chad show you in 06 that makes you think he is an elite NFL QB that could compete with the kinds of teams we saw in the playoffs this year? He had a nice season that wasn't great by a long shot. His arm looked terrible in long stretches of 06, we were shut out twice and beat up on some awful teams to make the playoffs something I thought we had a great chance to do before the 06 season. Last year against a slightly better schedule and a year of film the entire team including Pennington and the coaching staff were expossed. You need to be able to throw the football in this league. Todd Collins looked good for a while last year before he got expossed in the playoffs and he has a better arm than Pennington.
I never said he was an "elite" QB, but he took a brand new offense and won 10 games with it. Did it with no #1 running back, two rookies blocking in front of him, and a novice OC and HC. The Jets beat the Pats in Foxboro and the eventual Super Bowl champs, Indy, had to drive the length of the field twice in the last 2:00 to beat us. Which tells you the defense wasn't exactly carrying the team, either. Again, not elite, but certainly good enough to win and better than anyone else on our roster to date, which is what this conversation is about. Maybe now Clemens will emerge as the #1 QB with a couple years under his belt, we'll see. As I've been saying since last season, play the better guy, whoever it ends up being. Just win.
The D coupled with great special teams and a QB who didn't make many costly mistakes and a very weak schedule was very much responsible for our wins in 06. The opposition averaged 11.4 pts per game in the 10 games we won in 06. Pennington showed great leadership, but he also showed lousy throwing skills much of the year. Last year against better competition with film it showed up big time. The new coaching staff schemed most of the wins in 06, Pennington to his credit was able to run the scheme. Other teams have adjusted. The ability to execute is needed to take the next step.
Leadership is as much, if not more important to playing QB than anything else. You keep mentioning film, that's more of an indictment of the coaching staff than the players. Opponents kept adjusting on us even after Clemens came in and they had no film on him. Look, you don't like Pennington, that's fine. I'm not saying he's an elite QB, never did, I'm not even saying he should start this year, that will be determined on the field. I just have an issue when people, like you, won't evaluate him and Clemens fairly and equally, and when you go back and distort facts to discredit what Pennington has done for the team in the past. Like saying Quincy Carter is responsible for us going to the playoffs in 2004 or that Pennington wasn't a factor in 2006. It's small and petty and just shows you have an ax to grind.
The old axe to grind argument. Does the fake indignation come with steam off the forehead and a red face with blown out cheeks?
What does that even mean? What's fake about it? If you can't even acknowledge what good Pennington has done with the Jets and you think Tom Brady is losing his ability to play in big games, I guess there's no talking to you. Have fun in your pursuit of a QB who completes every pass and wins every game, dominating every defense home and away. Get youself a nice video game and have at it.
This has been a very boring and unproductive discussion... Because: Do you fans who post these endless messages about Clemens vs. Pennington and vice versa ever consider that the ultimate decision will be made by Eric Mangini? To me, what's interesting in this whole equation is this question: "Does Eric Mangini have the football smarts, the ability to judge talent and the intelligence to be able to distinguish Pennington's veteran experience versus Clemens' potential, and to determinee which player's abilities fit this very expensive team of veteran free agents and that was put together during the offseason?" Since it looks like the team is going to depend more on the running game than the throwing game, I think Clemens will be the choice. But really, Mangini is the guy on the line is year--NOT Pennington, NOT Clemens. After all, Tannenbaum/Mangini could have drafted or signed another QB for this team. They didn't, so they must have confidence in Chad AND Kellen, since a simpel injury will knock either of them out of the season (as we have seen beforre). So if any of you posters don't like either of these guys? We are in trouble! And mangini will be in worse trouble.
I agree. He had a horrible year last year. My argument is that people want to cut Chad because he's going to be a highly paid backup if Clemens wins the starting role. I'm simply saying if Pennington got that money, is because he earned it back in 2006 for the remainder of his contract. I wish they could pay players based on their seasonal stats, but they don't. I think the FO might ask Chad to get another pay cut if he becomes a backup, which could turn messy, but who knows if that will happen or how things will work out. If Clemens is the starter, we should deal with the hand we're dealt because there really isn't a better option in the Free Agency for the Jets RIGHT NOW. I doubt any somewhat highly-regarded QB gets cut come around June. If any, it will most likely be in the final 53-man roster cuts. By then, you'll have Clemens starting a season with a FA QB who'll have a few weeks under his belt learning our offensive system. If Clemens goes down (knock on wood) for let's say 4 weeks or so, I think Chad is still capable of carrying the team for those 4 games in order to keep us in the hunt for a playoff spot. I don't have that kind of confidence with a QB who has a couple of weeks of our offense under his belt or a Rookie.
Wait a minute ... are you saying that WE don't get to decide? GTFOH Well shiver me timbers. All this time we thought Italian Seafood and Winston Biggs would be making the final decision. Thank god we have you here to set the story straight so we can get back to discussing more important things, like how we just signed our 7th round pick.
I prefer to run the ball on my football game board. I broke the spring loaded shoulder on my QB on the first pass attempt. His leadership qualities are electric and the lack of passing hasn't seemed to hurt my team.
