Why would Woody's fingerprints be hidden? He owns the team - who else is supposed to hire key employees? Exactly what is it about the hiring process you question - other than it happened at all?
absolutely, and i have been that small minority a few times myself. i dont want to come and argue on here everyday though. so i am using the ignore buttonalot more now than i used to. hopefully it will make things better.
I understand it is somewhat of a flag that Campbell passed on Engstrand, but he and Morton do go way back. They were under Saints staff together, and he hired Morton to be sr assistant coach in Detroit at the time Engstrand was TE coach - 2022. Morton then moved to Denver, but he does know Detroit offense very well and Campbell really liked Morton, he mentioned in many times in the past. Now, it is true, Campbell picked Morton over Engstrand, but I do think Engstrand would have been the next choice if Morton was already an OC. Campbell gets continuity with either one of them. Campbell could have preferred Morton's experience. Or maybe he does not want to look for OC every year or two in case a young guy like Engstrand succeeds, while older guy like Morton is less likely to be considered for a HC, while in his mind equally as good an OC. It's hard to tell how much Campbell values Engstrand, and yes he preferred Morton, but I do not think that means Engstand sucks. There is still some hope he might be good. And if he is we will soon be looking for another OC. That is one big problem when you have a defensive HC, but we will cross that bridge when we come to it. I think Engstrand has a shot to be a good OC though, even though he was probably a second choice for both Detroit and the Jets too, who liked the Rams passing coordinator, who ended up going to Houston. This is not exact science, second choice could do better than the first.
Yeah, like i said before it's not impossible Engstrand surprises, but I just can't wrap my head around it in a positive manner until I see at least a hint of the possibility. I mean he was with Dan Campbell from day 1 there. You ain't letting a 4 year in the successful system guy walk out of the building if you truly believe he's talented enough and can make for a successful OC heir to Ben. Maybe it's just the businessman in me, but that just doesn't add up as smart play out of a team we are essentially trying to leech from *because* we view them as doing smart things we want to replicate ourselves.
He knew Morton BEFORE day 1 though and really spoke glowingly about him. Like really glowingly, I heard it in one of the interviews. Morton was also on Detroit staff before he was hired by Payton in Denver, which in itself btw is also a Morton endorsement and does provide continuity. Clearly Campbell preferred Morton, no argument there, but the only way not to allow Engstrand to walk was not to have Morton. It's not like he fired him. My point is that preferring Morton to Engstrand is not an indictment on Engstrand, at least not a major one. It feels like this was one of these situations where Campbell really wanted a specific guy - Morton - as opposed to not thinking Engstrand would be a good OC and he needs someone else. And again part of the reason could be that Morton has a lower probability of getting hired as a HC if he does well vs Engstrand. And if Engstrand succeeds here, this is what AG will have to deal with too. Every time you lose an OC, when you are not an offensive guy, there is a lot of shake-up. Big shoes to fill, plus on top of it there are others holes as well, since they typically take other coaches with them. It's a big deal. I just don't think in this circumstance it's a major red flag, even though of course hiring a new first time OC like that is a major risk. That's what all of these defensive coaches have to deal with.
Engstrand was in Detroit before Campbell got there, he was a carryover. Morton was Campbell's guy. I think it makes more sense to wonder why Ben Johnson didn't take Engstrand to Chicago with him. They go farther back together than Campbell does with them.
Could be that he wants to call plays and be in complete control of his own offense? The Jets offer a bigger promotion than going to Chicago and realistically just being the OC in name only.
For sure and that's probably it. I'm not worried about this aspect of Engstrand at all. I don't really care why he chose us and not the people he worked with before, I was just trying to understand the thought process of a different poster. my concern is with experience: he's a little green and Fields will require a unique coordinator that experience may benefit. However, even that could be overstated as these grey-beard coordinators have shown difficulties in working with the new college style running QBs. And Fields himself is on like his 6th coordinator or something crazy so he's worked with all types of personalities i'm sure
On what planet does what I said = I love Aaron Rodgers? It is very possible to know that letting him walk was the correct move while also acknowledging it can be WAY worse without him.
Rodgers brought 5 wins in 2 seasons, I'm not sure it is possible to be WAY worse without him. Certainly going winless would be way worse but this team isn't winless level bad by any means
I feel like I'm going in circles but I'm talking about production from the QB position. The team stunk, he wasn't great, the coaching staff was a mess... now the team is worse, the QB most likely will produce less (legs and arm combined) and we're banking on a rookie staff to make sure it doesn't happen. I'm sure the run game will be better, I'm sure we'll be watchable more times than not which is an upgrade, but I don't think people are fully comprehending the situation because of how they feel about Rodgers.
Exactly, that one obvious. Ben Johnson is the OC in Chicago as well as HC. Think of Bieniemy in KC. He went to Washington to be an OC because calling plays there is a promotion from OC in name only in KC. Engstand is the real OC here. Granted it didn't work out for Eric, because he was not a great OC and didn't have much success, but If Engstrand has some success, he is the next HC in NFL, and that's worth a shot.
so what are you worried about? they will be better in some areas, not as good in others, and they will probably end up with a similar win total as last year. I think even Tyrod Taylor could get 5 wins out of this crew
I don't know what gives off a sense of worry. I'm very much at ease with and expecting a bad season. I'm replying to people who have this weird notion that there's no way it can get worse than what we had last year and it absolutely can.
I am expecting a pretty crappy season…I think the playoffs are a long shot, and I think our win total will probably be pretty close to last year’s 5 wins…give or take a couple…a few breaks go our way maybe 6 or 7, but just as easily could be 3 or 4. Coaching - complete unknown since we went with rookies again at HC and OC…I know hard to imagine coaching being any worse than last year, so maybe this is a net neutral in comparison, but I was hoping we’d have hired an offensive guy with experience…would have loved to see us at least talk to both McCarthy and Kingsbury, and I would likely have preferred either of those guys to Glenn, not because I don’t like Glenn but because I just think after decades of trying to develop DC’s into HCs and failing miserably at it, I would have liked to see a different approach Roster - I think our roster, so far, is marginally worse than last year…WR is worse, DL is not really improved yet, OL I think will be fortified in the draft so if we get a RT who can outplay Moses then this may be a bit better, CB/S are worse right now…I think losing Reed is going to be a bigger deal than we think and I don’t know why it’s kind of been glossed over a bit, but we’ll see…S I don’t know who’s going to start, and then of course the big change at QB…I get why it makes total sense to move on from AR…rookie HC, new system, he’s getting older, cap implications, all of that I get it…it makes sense. But Fields is not a better QB than AR. He does have youth and therefore potential based on his raw skills, but I don’t think with him his shortcomings are physical tools…it’s that he can’t process at the level required of a top flight NFL QB, and I don’t know if a DC as HC and a rookie OC are the team to develop him. History for us shows we can’t. We’ll see. I guess overall I’m just REALLY down on how this whole thing is going. We are following literally the EXACT same playbook as last cycle. We hired a rookie GM. We hired a hot up and coming DC to be our rookie HC. We hired a rookie OC. All of this is the same shit we did with JD and Saleh and MLF. We then hit the reset on a highly drafted QB. It didn’t work. Will it work now? Who knows, but I’m not seeing anything to get me super excited or convinced that it will. And I just feel like I’m getting so tired of these recycles…tear down, rebuild, tear down, rebuild. I’m not getting any younger. So yeah…I’m hoping to be surprised on the upside but I’m kind of expecting another year of crap…
As long as W. Johnson owns the Jets, it's going to be a constant cycle of shit. This I resigned myself to. To be quite frank, I loved Aaron Glenn as a player and it pisses me off to no end that he's now the HC of the Jets. I'd rather his legacy not be tarnished by this turd of a franchise but it is what it is. Have my fingers crossed but history tells us 7 wins or less and the playoffs are a distant memory/dream.
How about allowing the team to play a season or at least a handful of games before making such a declarative statement that "now the team is worse"? That and the rest of your post simply reveals that your mind is already made up before any of these guys have even gotten together as a team, even for lunch.
Other than Bill Belicheck, we have not spawned an offensive or defensive coordinator to a future HC position ever. At least not since the early 80’s. Who in their right mind would think we’re the best avenue to becoming a HC? Engstrand was passed over, by his former boss and his former team. He was brought here because Glenn knows who he is.
And Aaron Glenn is precisely trying to bring success from that era you are referring to, when he was a player, and take it to the next level from 1998. Engstrand's credentials are in line with the other younger OCs, some of whom were successful recently. At this point let's at least give it a try, see what they do.
I’m certainly willing to give him his shot but let’s not kid ourselves, he’s the odd man out passed over by his former coach and former team. Maybe they were both wrong. That’s what we’re counting on. This guy was coaching XFL 6 years ago.
