Yeah - but I?m not sure mung has ever actually happened (god...I hope not). This season is definitely happening.
I've never been a quitter, but just give me something that tells me we can turn this around. Well... Hey! Let's look around a little! What do we have that could turn this around? Uh..... Let me guess......
The only thing that could turn this around at this point is a QB change, and realistically that's not going to turn things around. Tom Brady got to work with Bill Belichik's second season of agressive building when he suddenly got his chance. FA's like Mike Vrabel had been brought in specifically to radically upgrade the Patriot's 3-4. Richard Seymour had been drafted to upgrade the defensive line. There was a strong plan in place being sabotaged by an aging and ineffective QB who was holding the ball too long. Clemens will have a pile of regurgitated muck surrounding him when he takes the job and the odds on the Jets going on a 7-1 run are really low when they're sliming around instead of moving bipedally.
we have good RB's and good WR's. sure, the offensive line is bad, but it is exacerbated in the running game by having a QB that doesn't require defenses to stay honest. I don't think Clemens can reel off a streak like 7-1, but with the receivers he has he can stretch the passing game in a way Chad cannot which will in turn open up the running game and make the Jets far more difficult to play than they are right now. I don't know if Mangini can't see this, or if he is just afraid to risk a few losses to break in a new QB. the ironic thing is that by being afraid to risk a few losses to break in a new QB he is actually losing the Jets games because for all of Chad's abilities, his inabilities have a far greater affect on games.
227, man, you are really feelin it! Too much blame on Pennington though. The bottom line issues are... the lines. Even if Chad could throw deep, the protection isn't there for any downfield threat. The play action doesn't work because the offensive line can't run block. Ferguson has proven to be a very, very average LT. We know about the LG spot, and Moore and Clement can't generate any push or open running lanes. NEVER should have traded up for Harris. We might have fixed the running game with a RT and RG instead of a nice player like Harris, who will likely be Vilma's replacement, maybe sooner than later. Our ILB's just can't fight through blocks and make tackles without getting dragged down the field for five yards first. It isn't just the NT spot that makes the run D so bad, we don't have any good ILB's for the 3-4. We don't have a legit pass rusher. This is more about personnel than anything else. That, and not drafting to need. Seems to me this CS went into Buffalo with a "play not to lose" game plan. We've seen that crap before, and in it's second year, I see this CS getting way too conservative. Having said all of that, I had the Jets as an 8-8 team this year. Might only be a 7 win team. Look at N.O. I knew that team would have a lot of trouble this year. Opponents adjust. What might have worked last year won't work as well the next. Look, we knew this GM and HC were young and inexperienced. They are getting that experience now. I do believe they will correct the mistakes they have made, but those corrections won't show up until next year in the W-L column. This team needs a game breaker on offense, and almost an entirely new line on both sides of the ball. You can't run a 3-4 without a great NT, or ILB's that can shed blocks and make big hits. Chad would be fine IF this team had a good defense and a running attack. As is always the case, the QB gets too much blame when it goes bad, and too much credit when it goes well. What would SF give to have a QB like Pennington right now? They need a "don't lose the game QB". Chad will never be a great 2 minute drill QB. But, with the make up of this roster, I agree, we need a QB that can pull rabbits out of his ass on command, and that isn't Pennington. Frankly, I am now hoping for a miserable season, get Clemens some snaps, get him an O line for next year, and go forward. Chad would be great if we had a dominant D, but we in fact have a lousy D, especially against the run. Time for a change in strategy for sure. In the meantime, get some valium. It's gonna be a long year.
THe defense looks awful. The running game hasn't done anything. We only throw 7 yard passes. We just lost to the worst team in the league. Mangini better figure it out. They look like shit every week, they better do something during the week that turns this team around.
This was the first time since the Kotite era that I turned off the game in early second quarter. You watch this team long enough and you pretty know what is going to happen. They looked pathetic. That was vintage "same old Jets".I never had much expectation for the team this year but I thought I would something a little more (like the second half of the Raven game). That said, I have seen my share of 10 or so wins and early playoff losses and I am fine with a learning curve and no playoffs this year. I thought this year would be a slight step back with schedule and all and we could ramp up for 08 or 09 and a super bowl run. What bothers me is this team looks like it is a long way away (2 or 3 drafts) from any super bowl run and that is highly discouraging. Unless the commish gets up there next year and says "with the first 8 picks in the 2008 NFL draft - the New York Jets select ......... I wonder if I will see the SB in my lifetime.
Dude its tough we should be playing 10 x better then this but just cause things havent went our way yet lets not give up all hope thats all im saying but you do make a good point.
I would have been more than happy with 7 or 8 wins this year if I saw some development in our play ? but this team is regressing?badly. Really disappointing?
I hear you, Bro. In TC, like Spring Training, hope springs eternal. There is a lot of excitement with each coming season, and it is fun to get out there and watch them in anticipation of the new season. No one knows what will unfold when the hitting starts for real, and I know I dont do reports to dampen people's spirits, no do i blow smoke to create unrealistic expectations. Right now things are kind of glum, and all we can hope for is that things get turned around. If they dont...well, either way we'll have a lot to talk about.
That basically summarizes it. I would have been perfectly content, as well, with a 8 or 9 win season, no postseason, if we just showed that we could play with certain guys. Well as it turned out, we just can't, at least right now. And to answer the whole question about our problems, it is, I think, as follows: 40% lines: Everyone knows the expression, "Games are won in the trenches." Where do we all think the expression came from? The Jets O-line generates no push off the LOS and therefore there is hardly ever room to run. The Jets O-line constantly has to keep in Baker or Barnes to give Pennington more than 2 seconds to throw the ball, which not only nuetralizes a lot of the passing game but also allows for more defenders for less receiving targets. The Jets D-line, when it has 3 down lineman, is the pits. Dewayne Robertson isn't big enough to be a 3-4 NT, I hear everyone saying it, and it's true. 310 isn't big enough, sorry. He'd make a decent end though, just no pass rush. And Kenyon Coleman is mediocre at best, no pass rush, and Shawn Ellis just occupies space, he hardly ever gets towards the QB. The whole problem with the line is that the whole point of the 3-4 is to free up linebackers to wreak havoc. Sorry, if theres 2 or 3 LB's that are blocked by LINEMAN each friggin play and these guys aren't big enough to shed blocks (Vilma?), you end up with running room and tons of time to pass. To generate any pass rush in the first 4 games we've had to bring 8 guys, and even then half the time the blitzes get picked up! 40% Pennington- Quarterbacks do often get too much credit or too much blame for problems or success, but Pennington, I think, gets nearly half of the credit as to why the whole offense is so sluggish, and a big part of why the team is so bad. The guy is a great leader (I KNOW!), very accurate (on passes less than 10 yards?), and is smart (good to know). However, his arm strength is closer to absolute zero than scientists can get to, and his mobility is a non-factor. You bring a rush, he'll put it on the ground if you hit him. And the non-ability to stretch the field at all means everyone can just sit back and jump on the short dumps because they know they're coming. Why, as a Free Safety, do you have to hang back if the guy can't throw downfield. Why don't you just creep up? That also haggers the runnning game...negating Thomas Jones' ability...does that look like a good trade now? Hell you could put Martin in his prime behind this line and he wouldn't do any better. 20% CS: I loved what Mangini and Schottenheimer did last year with the constant moving around, unorthodox, aggressive play calling, going for it on fourth and 1 in your own territory, etc. Where did that go? Why is Mangini suddenly more conservative than Herm Edwards? I don't get it!! Plus, the absolute lack of personell for the 3-4 shocks me. How can you come in last year, say you're going to run the 3-4, and then not draft a nose tackle!! That is the key position on the D line, maybe in the whole defensive scheme of a 3-4. Bring in Clemens if we lose to the Giants. Chad's time, though I love him to death, is over.
You are not alone, and I don't think anyone could have said it better. Your analysis IMO is 100% accurate. Your strongest point is that things aint gonna change either. The day Mangini benches Chad (hey, I can get it to the line of scrimmage) Pennington, Bryan (invisible) Thomas or Dwayne (this year he WILL make the pro bowl) Robertson is the day the sun rises in the west.
We need to string a few wins together or it will be a long season, I thought we would beat Buffalo last week, but The Jets always have trouble there. They should have run the ball more.
last year Mangini had nothing to lose. if the team wasn't good, big deal, they were coming off a 4-12 season and nobody expected them to be. this allowed Mangini to experiment and try things that could allow them to win but if they didn't work could lead to losses. this year, people are actually expecting some wins, and with that pressure Mangini seems afraid to make decisions that if they don't work could be disasterous. it's the age old adage, you don't win when you play not to lose. and this season, Mangini is playing not to lose. I mean, how could you come from the Bill Belichik school of coaching and be afraid to go for it on 4th and inches. the Jets have several times already this year, starting with the opening drive of the season. Belichik almost always goes for it on 4th and short at midfield and beyond. the more I see Mangini, the more I think that all he is is a copy boy who made friends with a coach and earned his promotions from his eagerness and tenacity and maybe not for his actual abilities. let us not forget the Pats defense under Mangini was the worse it has been under Belichik. Belichik runs the 3-4 because he understands how it works and how to make it work. Mangini seems to run it because he knows how it works, but doesn't seem to actually understand how it works. it would be like knowing 10x10 equals 100, but not knowing why it does. that just seems to me how Mangini is strategically. he knows what the answer should be because Belichik told him, but doesn't know how to actually figure it out for himself.
You think your depressed? I've just shelled out $4000 for my trip over for the Eagles game.........................where's that rope?.....
I like this response alot, although many others have nailed it in their posts as well. Thanks for the replies, guys. It's nice to know I'm not the only manic depressant on the board (T-Bird, can you send me some of your Valium?) LOL. Interesting way to "assign" percentages, but pretty much spot on. And, of course, it's all inter-related. Inter-related... which brings up another point. Let's just suppose... just suppose for a minute, that we replace Pennington with Clemens if we go down in flames against the Giants. It's only one personnel change, granted, so it can't have THAT much effect on the other problems, right? Well, maybe not so... At 1-4 (if we lose to the Giants), bringing in Clemens sends an SOS to the entire team: everyone needs to step up. If it becomes obvious after Sunday that we're going nowhere fast, why not give it a try? Do SOMETHING! Anything's better than "staying the course" and being "consissent" with Pennington at the helm. At 1-4, you'd have to win 9 of the remaining 11 games to make the playoffs (hardly likely). So, bringing in Clemens gives him valuable playing time and real, honest-to-goodness NFL experience. Experience he'll need if he's truly our "heir apparent." If it turns out he's not the heir apparent we thought he was, at least we find that out BEFORE September '08. Right now, we truly still don't know what we really have. At 1-4, the rest of the team needs to know you're not being "consissent" for the sake of being consistent. It gives them hope (and a spark) that maybe, MAYBE, something can turn around for this season, and the message goes out that maybe we need to take our individual play to a higher level. This gives you the luxury of seeing what each and every other guy (besides Pennington) is made of. He he steps it up, you keep him. If he doesn't, you know he's not a keeper. At 1-4, replacing Chad with a gunslinger like Clemens does something else. I know this will be met with skepticism, but I think it "improves" some of the other deficiencies. The O-line, for example, has the pressure of protecting Chad for longer periods of time because of his lack of mobility. They also have to worry about protecting the ball, which seems to come out with regularity when Chad is pressured. With Clemens, the ball is either released or it isn't. With Clemens, the run improves because they can't jamb the box. With Clemens, you keep them honest. This takes immense pressure off the O-line, IMO. At 1-4, replacing Chad with Clemens improves the running attack. Thomas Jones gets nowhere with so many defenders close up. With Penny, sustaining 10, 11 and 12 plays to drive the ball (because none of the passes are deep) requires many 3rd down conversions, every one of which can end the drive immediately, which is why we're not putting many points on the board. And if, God forbid, you're behind in the 4th quarter and need yards fast, well... forget it. The clock runs and you hope Nugent can eventually connect with a 57-yarder to tie the game. What the hell is that? At 1-4, replacing Chad with Clemens doesn't improve our defense, except for one thing: if Clemens' drives result in TD's and we start puttin 30+ points on the board, MAYBE we can get a lead and hold it throughout a game, something we haven't gotten with Chad. With a lead, and the threat of having Clemens come back on the field and score even more points, it effects the way the oopposing offense game-plans. They have to take more risk. They can't run the ball and run the clock out. They're behind, so they have to put the ball up, increasing chances of come-from-behind desperation dirves to be picked off or stalled on 3-out. It can be argued that replacing Chad with Clemens might keep our undersized DEF fresher and not constantly beaten up defending the run, which by now we all know is inadequate. At 1-4, in short, do you really have much to lose? At 1-4, "consissency" is getting us nowhere fast. I'm calling for inconsistency. That's right, inconsistency. It's inconsistent to replace Chad Pennington at 1-4, especially since you just announced that Pennignton is your starter. And quite a cruel thing to do too, given what Chad has endured for the team (albeit he's also been paid well). But a good coach has the responsibility to every other player out there who's busting his ass to provide the best chances to win, and at 1-4, Clemens' chances are as good as Chad's. Have the balls to be inconsistent!
Line can't be that bad if he went 32 or 38 or something like that. But they can play to just keep everything in front of them because frankly CP doesn't scare anyone.
Well for sure you know that I am on the same page with you. I'm sure you know you only bit off a teeny piece of the apple of what is wrong with us with your post which was terrific BTW
The line is improving some... that and the quick, short passes are going to help as well. Hopefully the line will continue to gel and maybe even eventually learn how to run block better. It is going to have to because right now our defense can't stop pack of old ladies on their way to bingo night.
