The Pro Bowl is voted on for every position. It's not like voting for the C's prevents people from voting for the CB's. It's a reasonable way of ranking people given that fact. Political biases towards certain players are nullified by the fact that every position gets a vote. For whatever reason CB's on Super Bowl teams are not as highly rated by their peers as most players on those teams. To simplify and just lump together positions it looks like this: S - 15 Pro Bowls and 6 All-Pros. QB - 14 Pro Bowls and 3 All-Pros. LB - 12 Pro Bowls and 5 All-Pros. RB - 10 Pro Bowls and 6 All-Pros. WR - 10 Pro Bowls and 2 All-Pros. C - 10 Pro Bowls. DE - 9 Pro Bowls and 4 All-Pros. T - 8 Pro Bowls and 3 All-Pros. G - 7 Pro Bowls and 2 All-Pros. TE - 6 Pro Bowls and 3 All-Pros. CB - 6 Pro Bowls and 2 All-Pros. DT - 6 Pro Bowls and 2 All-Pros. That's just what it is. For whatever reason the excellent CB's each season are less likely to be on a Super Bowl winner than most of the other positions on the field and this despite the fact that there are 2 positions that theoretically could both win on a great defense. It just doesn't happen. The impact of great CB's is felt other places than on Super Bowl winning teams.
You are right, let's get rid of a player everyone knows is good because of the position he plays. Trade him for a bunch of unproven rookies - good call. The Jets don't need good players unless they play certain positions. You should put in your application to Woody. I mean it's a pretty easy concept, lets just have a skinny part-time starting college QB fall in to the Jets laps in the 6th round and then not worry about defense, he'll take us to the SB five times pretty much by himself - It worked for NE!
All this tells me is that Super bowl winning teams usually have a great player in the secondary - which the Jets have in Darrelle Revis... not to mention the fact that has been brought up just because certain teams HAVE done something one way doesn't mean thats the only way to win the Super Bowl. Whatever happened to Defenses win Championships argument?? Oh yea that kind of went out the window with Colts, Saints, Packers winning it. My point is that these age-old arguments can change instantly every year. The only thing we know for sure is that Darrelle Revis is an awesome football player, if I'm running a team I would think it would be a no-brainer to want him on it.
You are missing klecko's point. It's not about the position, it's about the money being paid for that position.
The patriots havent won a superbowl since they let go their big money CBs in Ty Law, then Asante Samuel... Steve Young never won a SB without a big money CB in Deion Sanders on his team.. The Green Bay Packers had big money in Charles Woodson in their recent superbowl victory. See how easy this is? The only thing we can know for sure is that teams that win a SB have GOOD players on them ( duh?) Darrelle Revis is a proven GOOD player.. to sacrifice him for the position he plays is retarded.
Nice job spinning what I wrote. You can spin this however you want but the facts are the facts. The Jets cannot pay Mevi$ this year because they don't have the cap room. They cannot trade him this year because they can't absorb the cap hit. They cannot outright release him this year because they can't absorb the cap hit. The earliest the Jets can get this resolved is in 2013. They will either trade him or pay him at that point in time because that is the only time they basically can address this issue. Mevi$ can sit out all he likes but that doesn't change the above scenario and only serves to trigger an automatic extension. The bottomline is that a $12 million elite pass rusher is more effective than a $12 million shutdown CB if you are going to lock that much much money up in one position. There is no guarantee that any DPs brought in for Revis or players signed with his money would be any better or worse. However, it minimizes risk by spreading it out vice putting all your eggs in one basket (from a stock perspective we call this diversifying your portfolio). As the team is currently constructed, should Revis go down, the Jets have $12 million in cap room locked into one position. The entire defense is designed with him as the lynch-pin and that isn't a good thing as it makes the team vulnerable if there is an injury or to being held hostage in negotiations. The fact that Brady fell into the Pats laps is besides the point. The Pats had pretty good team between 2001-2004. They cheated their way to upset the Rams, but Brady did a good enough job to win. In 2003-2004, Brady was carrying much more of the load but they still had a great team across the board. Beginning in 2007, it has been Brady show and Belichicken has done a poor job of surrounding him with talent especially on the defensive side of the ball after 2007 almost team.
Do you work as an NFL GM? Do you have inside knowledge of the Jets cap situation and/or Revis's demands? Of course if he asks for something astronomical you don't pay him the money, you have to fill out a roster, but on May 9 2012 to sit here and argue the Jets shouldn't keep him because he's a CB (which is the key point of your argument ) is insane. "The bottomline is that a $12 million elite pass rusher is more effective than a $12 million shutdown CB if you are going to lock that much much money up in one position." That is debateable, personally I am almost inclined to disagree, but even if I wasn't the Jets won't have to make this decision because they don't have an elite pass rusher to debate over- and they don't grow on trees. Its not choosing Darrelle Revis over choosing an elite Pass Rusher, its about choosing Darrelle Revis over the money, even if they got rid of Revis it doesn't necessarily mean they would get an Elite Pass rusher with that money there's probably countless teams with tons of money that would kill for an elite pass rusher
What do you think his demands are going to be??? The guy is averaging about 11 mil for the next three years. If he holds out, its because he wants an astronomical deal. He sees Mario Williams getting paid 90 mil and about 16 mil a year. Revis is clearly a better PLAYER, and is going to want something in that 15-16 mil range. Otherwise, him holding out isnt worth his time and effort for an extra 2 mil a year.... But because of Revis’ position, his value does not even come close to 16 million. You just dont pay CBs that type of money. They affect ONE player on the field, at least with Mario Williams’ case, he can affect every play because thats what his position allows him to do. Its been said over and over again, but that cap value of 15/16 mil a year for Revis would only be worth it a few times a year.
Darrelle Revis wants to be the highest paid player he possibly can be. Most players in that situation who have been treated very well by their teams over the years wait until their contract is up and then they look for the best possible deal either from their team or failing that on the free agent market. Darrelle Revis on the other hand has no respect for his team, does not care what the effect of his financial demands will be on the cap for that team, and basically is a mercenary free agent all the time. The fact that he is actually under contract just doesn't matter to him. He's going to keep coming back for more money until the Jets finally just say no. That's what they need to do now. Say no. If all concerned are very lucky Darrelle Revis will not hold out and will get the chance to test the free agent market after 2013 unencumbered by the franchise tag. Every other star player in football would kill to have that situation after making the amount of money Darrelle has made over the last 5 seasons. If we're all not lucky (including DR) he'll hold out and this will get very ugly very quickly, either for the Jets chances moving forward if they cave or for DR if they don't.
Marshall is the only player to have a truly "Good" game directly against Revis. It was stated time and again that in the Buffalo game Rex gameplanned around letting Stevie get the quick underneath routes to allow Revis to try and make some bigger plays on Def. Obviously didn't work to our advantage but none the less.. not 100% Revis' fault. Discount that game and the guy played another lights out year.
Check out Jason's very comprehensive and well respected Jets cap site: http://nyjetscap.com/salary.html You don't need to be a GM to read a budget. Provided you can balance a check book, you will likely come to the same conclusions as the rest of us as it pertains to salary cap implications. My guess is that Mevi$ will ask for $16 million a year as that is what he was aiming for originally for the duration of his contract and what he averaged his first two years. Check out the below link for details: http://nyjetscap.com/2012_Articles/revisholdout12.php He is not going to settle for $12 million per year as that is the average of the 4-year contract he recently signed and the the past 2 years he made $32 million. The Jets would need to pay him about $14 million if you factor in a correction in the CB market after the Aso Raider contract. The Jets would need to clear up an additional $10.5 million to cut/trade him in 2012. They only have $8.5 million in cap space open and that doesn't include all rookie signings yet. If the Jets traded/cut him in 2012, he would count for $22 million in cap space - 17% of their $130 million salary cap. In 2013, the Jets would need to find an additional $3million in cap space to cut him. He would eat up $15 million in dead cap space. The good news is that the Jets will likely free up $22.5 million when they dump Scott, Pace, Smith and Hunter. If they trade/release Revis, that would leave them with $19.5 million of available cap room. As the cap is unlikely to dramatically increase in 2013, the Jets are probably looking at $123m cap + whatever carry-overs for something in the neighborhood of $128-29m. Remember this year's cap is higher by about $1.5m due to the cap re-distro as a result of the penalties to the Redskins and Cowboys. The Jets will still have Wilson and Cro on the books next year, so it is likely that they can absorb that $15m dead money with a trade only then. Getting rid of Cro will save the Jets $1.5m on the salary cap but he will still take up $9.5m in dead money and you won't get nearly as much for him in a trade.
Not to mention the elephant in the room will be how long it is until Revis comes knocking again with yet another holdout threat. You can't win a team game with non-essential players acting like they're the star of the show no matter how good they are. To everybody but Jet fans the spectacle of the Jets trying to build around a cornerback is good mainly for laughs. Particularly when that CB keeps hanging them out to dry with holdouts and holdout threats. For Jet fans it's harder to see that point of view because the Jets haven't been bad with Revis on the roster since his rookie year. My guess is that we're going to get to see that bad team fairly soon and that it will become much easier then for everybody to recognize exactly what Revis value is in terms of determining the Jet's competitive success. We'll see the bad team because of injuries elsewhere or because the offensive strategy becomes incoherent in other ways but it's likely to become clear at that point that you cannot build a team around the defensive backfield.
No they needed to score more than 14 points. Seriously though its making my point even further you can twist past Superbowl teams by pointing out good players almost every year and it doesnt mean anything. I could probably make an argument that to win the superbowl you need a good Guard or something. Superbowl teams have great players, Darrelle Revis is a great one for the Jets. They should try to build around him and win the super bowl.
You have jumped the shark here. First of all, you have no idea if or when Revis will ever hold out again. You don't know what his contract demands will be, or what will be necessary to keep him. The whole discussion at this point is ridiculous since he can't be traded now due to the cap hit. You are on this ridiculous concept that it doesn't matter who the CB is. You and others as I have shown and not been contradicted underplay his importance to the team, quite unfairly, by saying his only benefit is taking away the other team's number 1 receiver. This is ridiculous for a number of reasons. Whatever cap situation the Jets are in is not due solely or even primarily to Revis. The Jets are grossly overpaying Mark Sanchez. Holmes and Harris and Mangold and Ferguson all are in huge contracts. None of them except for possibly Mangold can be seen as one of or in fact the best players at their position in the league. Yet you only complain about Revis. This is monstrously ridiculous. And worst of all, what would the Jets get in return for trading Revis? This FO would do better with what great moves they would make? The Revis pick is by far the best draft pick they have made in the last twenty plus years. They will not be equally good with picks they get in return for him. Give it a rest, Brad. You are being ridiculous.
I rigged nothing. I just pointed out the CB is a position that Super Bowl winning teams in the salary cap era have traditionally avoided having the best players at. You cannot argue with the fact that 15 safeties have made the Pro Bowl on Super Bowl winning teams in 20 seasons, whereas only 6 cornerbacks have done so. That's just not an arguable proposition. Safety may or may not be more important in NFL defenses than cornerback but the guys chosen as the best at their position at safety in a vote of their peers are dramatically more likely to be on a Super Bowl winner than the best guys who play CB.
June 1st, 2094. That's 82 years from now. If Revis took his pay from the first 2 years of his current contract (money he's already received) and spent $1000 per day, June 1st, 2094 is when he'd run out. That's $1000 per day for 82 years on money he's already gotten from the Jets over the last 2 seasons. I'm trying to feel sorry for him, I really am. edit: $15M + $15M / $1000 / 365 = 82 years.
As I said, and you did not answer, you rigged the results by lumping wideouts in one category and divided CB's by left from right. You ignore the fact that many if not most teams of the last twenty years played zone defenses, which do not even try to benefit from utilizing a CB who can play man coverage against the opponent's best receiver. Concededly safeties playing over the top have more importance in a zone pass D. But that is only relevant to analyzing the importance of quialty cb's to a man coverage pass D if you want to argue that zone defenses are inherently more likely to take you to an SB win. Base schemes on both offense and defense go through phases. Ryan thinks and I agree that a base pass D using primarily zone coverage is not the only or even best way to go right now. He has fielded excellent pass defenses since he got here. It's not Revis's fault that Sanchez is mediocre and overpaid. It's not Revis's fault Mangold got hurt last year and only Baxter was there to replace him. It's not Revis's fault that Hunter is the worst starter on the team. It's not even Revis's fault that the LB's are locked into expensive contracts but are getting old and slow. Give it up, dude. WHat did Revis do something personal to you?
If most of the teams of the last 20 years have played zone defenses and those are the teams winning Super Bowls why are you arguing for keeping a very expensive man-to-man defender when those guys don't win championships (assuming your argument above is correct)? I have nothing against Darrelle Revis aside from the fact that the Jets aren't a serious contender for the AFC East with him hogging the amount of the cap that he does. That he keeps threatening to hold out to take MORE of the cap despite not producing results that justify the amount he does take just makes me less inclined to view him as a valuable piece of a Jets Super Bowl team. Turning the question around: why are you so attached to him when the evidence suggests that the Jets would be in a better situation with virtually any other defensive superstar playing for them? Are you attached to him because he is a Jet and so you cannot see beyond that basic level what his value really is?
