Once Brady retires I look forward to stuffing threads like this up the asses of these arrogant Pats d-bags. The problem is that when the Patriots sink back into lower mediocrity these bandwagon fans will be long gone
Finally we agree on something, yes that is my argument, and your response is to conveniently eliminate the successes he's had without B.B. and Brady, by saying "Parcells doesn't count because he was a good coach and Patriots had great success", then as your only example of a "Steep decline", is you point to a three year period that produced two Playoff appearances and a single 500 record season. Your argument is comical, you've presented nothing that proves Kraft's success without BB and Brady shows a steep decline. Even when you throw out the Parcells years with some is asinine reason why they shouldn't count, you still end up with three years of relative success the Jest haven't been able to replicate for the last 20 years. On top of that stupidity you try and Cherry pick one 5-11 season that BB didn't have have Brady as proof of what exactly? Did you also count the 11-5 season BB had when Brady was injured? Or are we not going to count that either because it counters your ridiculous fact less argument? Your incoherent, unbalanced and completely biased analysis have proven without a doubt that you haven't got a clue what your talking about and are completely out of your depth here. You would prove yourself to be more honest, and far less stupid, by simply stating that you hate the Patriots and ending the discussion.
This is the second time that you've mentioned "you still end up with three years of relative success the Jest haven't been able to replicate for the last 20 years.". In an earlier post you said “Ok, I'm game, lets take a look at what you call a steep decline, here we have three seasons, 10-6 playoffs, 9-7 playoffs, 8-8. I honestly don't know how Pats fans survived the horror!!! Do you realize that in the last 20 years the Jets haven't put up three consecutive seasons with that much success.” Please check your facts. From 2009 - 20011 you will see that the Jets did indeed have that level of success and more. I'm sure you are aware that the Jets went to two AFC Championship Games back to back while going 4-2 in the playoffs and 29-19 in the regular season). While the recent history of the Jets hasn't been stellar they are a decidedly average team over the last ~17 years. They actually have slightly over .500 record in games played not against the Pats and have nearly the exact same winning percentage against the Pats that the rest of the league does. In an earlier post you also mentioned “History, check into it, were the Pats in the basement the ten plus years before B.B. and Brady?”. While that history does go back to prior to Kraft owning the team - you brought it up. Indeed in those 10 years prior to Brady starting - the Pats did finish last (5th) in the division three times and second to the last (4th) four times. While the Pats might continue to be a good / great team after Brady and Belichick retire there are no guarantees. They have been bad before and they are likely to be bad again. To what degree and for how long? Nobody knows. Just because Kraft owns the team doesn’t mean he will always make good decisions and hire good people. One additional thing to consider once B/B retire: the Patriots will not have the luxury of having the arguably greatest QB taking significantly less than market value for his services allowing the Pats to spend dollars elsewhere.
It’s not convenient to eliminate BP because the success of the Pats with Parcells can clearly be attributed to Parcells and not Kraft considering the team decline after Parcells but with Kraft. This is basic logical deduction — if the results changed what factors can be attributed to it. If Parcells absence can be attributed to the decline then his presence must have been the factor in the success. If Kraft was so meaningful towards the team’s success you wouldn’t have seen the decline after Parcells and between Brady. Brady is the greatest QB of all time; he is such an extreme that team’s success with him, which was simply blind luck in drafting him and not a result of any brilliant football insight by Kraft, is clearly attributed to Brady. Neither the blind luck of owning the team while a random coach pushed to draft Brady or the hiring of an already HOF coach in Parcells, which are the two greatest factors in the team’s success during their time with the Pats, reflects any brilliant football talent by Kraft that you want to claim it does and will continue forward when B.B. and Brady call it a day. The onus is on you to show the team has a history of success when Kraft is the sole common denominator. That evidence doesn’t exist; it exists to the contrary.
Once again this is a classic, "STRAW-MAN", argument. First off, this "massive decline" you refer to, includes back to back playoff appearances, followed by a 500 season. By any teams standard this would not be considered a typical Browns or Jet level of yearly failure. However, it is perfect proof of how awful your argument really is. Your entire argument is that "Kraft is not meaningful to the teams success", you then remove BP from the equation because he had success, ok fine, then you try and use three years of "decline" as you call it, as proof of this argument. Ok, I'll accept those three years as a decline, but what does it prove? It certainly doesn't prove that Kraft wasn't meaningful to success as you try and suggest, if anything it proves the exact opposite. What did Kraft do after that 8-8 season? He fired the coach because he didn't like the trend and wanted better, then he went out and hired B.B., which you conveniently then want ignore because he went on to succeed. Yet, who was it that hired him, who was it that decided, two consecutive playoff trips and a 8-8 season wasn't good enough? It was Kraft, so yes the evidence does exist that Kraft was meaningful to team success, but sadly you won't admit it. I'll leave you this food for thought, do you think Woody would have the balls to to fire a Jet coach after two years of playoff appearances followed by an 8-8 season that was one game short of another? Again, there's no amount of facts or logic that will dissuade Jet fans from believing that the Patriots will sink to the bottom of the division for a decade after B.B. and Brady are gone, and I for one am content to watch and enjoy the shock that will come to them with the realization that that's not going to happen. I'll stand by this simple fact, the Pats have better ownership than the Jets now, and they'll still have better ownership when B.B. and Brady retire. That's just the reality, like it or not.
Call it what you like, but I'll take Kraft over Woody without debate or moments second guessing, and I''ll bet most rational fans of the other 30 NFL teams would as well. The very fact that you would argue the joke that is Woody over Kraft as and team owner, shows you to be neither rational or capable of putting team bias aside to recognize what is very plainly obvious.
To be honest I will take our janitor over Woody without a debate. That isn't saying much about Kraft to be honest.
The very fact that you made that up and is nothing I ever posted makes you a joke. Anything else you'd care to lie about? GTFOH!
Well the debate was over Kraft's impact on the team's success since his owned them. The general consensus of "Jet fans", that have commented are shockingly negative, in spite of evidence to the contrary. As I said in a previous post, I'm content to sit back and enjoy the anger and frustration of Jet fans when B.B. and Brady retire and they ultimately realize that Patriots are still competitive and competing for the division on a regular basis. Obviously Jet fans don't want that to happen, but as long as the team is owned by the Kraft family, and the Jets are owned by old Woody, I'll take the Pats.
You don’t seem to understand what a Strawman is. The rest of this nonsense is a weak attempt to argue going from the Super Bowl to 5-11 in 4 seasons isn’t a massive decline, which, as I’ve stated previously,if that is your criteria for being competitive or successful Jets fans will gladly see the Pats be that successful.
Nothing weak about it, nor would any objective reader find it weak in any respect. Only an angry bitter Jet fan like you, would continue to argue in the face of what are clear irrefutable facts in regards to Kraft's ownership of the Pats, as it is related to the teams success. As I said previously, you may believe what you like, you're a Jet fan and with that I can only assume you are accustomed to many forms of self deception when it comes to the reality of your team and fandom. Here, you are clearly out of your league and it would do little good for me to explain to you what a Strawman argument is because you seem to lack either the capacity to understand it, or the willingness, maybe both. Again, I'm more than content in the knowledge that when B.B. and Brady retire, I still have the Kraft family running the team, while the Jets have Woody. LOL
What Part has Kraft played in the success other than hire an all time coach,luck into an all time QB & sign off on the underhanded espionage crap?Hes not watching college tape w the personnel dept like the Maras & Rooney’s.Hes nothing more than a business man who handed the keys to an all time great who had to screw over a division rival to get it done. Woody Is the exact same type of owner except more funds at his disposal & the appeal of the NY market in his back pocket.Woody could just as easily hire the right guy moving forward as Kraft is In Kraft’s time as owner he’s had 3 all time great coaches.Only 1 has won a SB despite the other 2 given multiple years to produce.Think he’s about due for the likes of Josh McDaniels..then we’ll see how great of a football genius Robert Kraft is.Speaking of Which..isn’t this the same owner that power moved Garropolo for 2nd rounder mid season during a year of contention w no other back up behind 40 year old Shady??Yes..by all means keep this man as owner & please PLEASE keep your arrogance to the fullest degree..when the cheating coalition breaks at the seams & Josh MCDaniels is your HC I want your disappointment to be as much of a shocking kick to the crotch as imaginable.
Clearly you can't follow the posts and won't bother restating what's been gone over in detail for someone that clearly can't bare the thought that the Patriots may not fall to the bottom of the Division after B.B. and Brady retire. I'll be happily watching Jet fans shock an misery, as I always do.
Clearly you are here cause your butt hurt over satan’s team losing in the super bowl so youre trying to redirect all that hurt on jet fans on a message board.Yeah you sure enjoy our misery cause it’s not about enjoying the game for you.Its about some false sense of ego & inflicting hurt on others pertaining to a football team. In which case I just feel sorry for you..but I live in New England so I’m well accustomed to this sick pitiful behavior. If it’s such a sure thing for the patriots to continue to dominate why be here arguing it?You hate jet fans..you clearly have some sadistic grudge against them..why not let us think the winning is coming to an end only to be let down & continued to be fooled? Ahh but of course..deep down the jet fans prognistication bothers you & worries you & since it’s all about redirecting negativity to boost your own ego you lash out!. You aren’t fooling anyone w your ridiculous agenda
I'm sorry, as a simply point of principle, I can't respond to anyone so limited in their vernacular that they use the term "Butt Hurt".
Yeah, you got me bad, I don't know how I'm going to get through this, 5-3 in Super Bowls over the last 17 years, the horror as a fan!!!! When was the last time the Jets sniffed a Super Bowl?
