I love Benjamin's ceiling but he's not ready to contribute early. He's very raw & will need time. Jets already have a high ceiling Speed/size project in Stephen Hill. If the Jets want an instant producer on O...Ebron/Lee/Matthews should be the big board heading into 18.
Great thread WW85. Matthews would be a great selection for this team at the 18. Please Idzik, don't overthink it and trade back or wait till the second round for this kid and risk losing him. "Value" is overrated when it comes to the draft. Get your guy. Just let things fall as they may and make this kid, the polished, durable WR this team needs. One thing that you will notice in evaluating WRs is that production at the college ranks is more of an indication of success at the pro level than perhaps any other position. No one is a sure bet, but here's a kid who was productive as you can possibly be, in the elite football conference in the nation. Not to mention he has a good head on his shoulders and a strong work ethic (walking on and playing his way for a scholarship). Please Idzik don't overthink this one and take a flyer on a kid who measures better. This team NEEDS a receiver not a track and field athlete!
Stephen Hill should not be considered when drafting a WR. He doesnt have a high ceiling contrary to popular belief. Just because a guy can run fast in a line and is 6'4 doesnt mean he has a high ceiling in the NFL. He could be cut for all I care- Id like to add 3 WRs this offseason and I dont see Hill making the roster. Plus, Idzik has no ties to him, it wasnt his pick. And please dont go on to say "SOJF giving up on a player way too early"... Also, as its been debated in another thread, Benjamin and Hill are nothing alike as WRs.
Trading a fourth and fifth isn't a big difference between a comp 4th and 5th but whatever my mistake. I'd rather trade up with the 2nd rounder to reach a polished complete receiver like Matthews than miss out on him and/or the 2-3 next best WRs waiting until the 50th pick. I think it's kind of a waste to make 12 draft choices because you're just going to cut 3-4 of them from day one, developing them on the practice squad at best. It gives you more chances to get lucky on a low pick but I'd rather move up once or twice to get a probable plus player. That also lets you be more aggressive in FA, taking the burden off overpaying for some medium WR instead of paying top dollar for a top G and S. This wouldn't be like Tannenbaum bringing the draft down to 4 or 5 picks by making a move, there would still be 8 or 9 picks at minimum, which is a huge difference.
I love the idea of getting Ebron and Matthews although I think i rather get the best receiver available at 18 and take ASJ in the second...keep all the picks and if that means weeding out some of the draft class before and after training camp so be it.
Giving up on a 2nd year receiver who was raw coming out is beyond ridiculous. Especially one w/ Hill's physical ability & the fact that he has had some good moments. Why do you even wanna draft receivers if you're going to be that impatient w/ young players already on the roster? You're honestly telling me you wouldn't consider Stephen Hill as a pretty good #4-#5 WR moving forward? Benjamin & Hill are very different..indeed. But speaking as prospects they're both raw high ceiling types centered on Size/speed. I'm fine w/ Benjamin if higher impact guys are brought in via others picks/FA. But this kid is gonna need some time..it is clear as day.
I don't see ASJ lasting to 50 either. His stock fell off a cliff this season but he's still a quality player and somebody is going to grab him well before then imo.
Geno wasn't going to make it out of the first round last year, at one point even the top 10 and look where he ended up...i can respect your opinion I guess the draft will be somewhat more predictable after the senior bowl and combine.
I understand your thinking, but with all the holes the Jets have, I think we need to save the picks and not trade up. There are a number of reasons for this. 1) Just because they draft 12 doesn't mean that it's a waste. Drafting 12 increases the chances that they'll find 8-9 to help the team if Idzik and his Scouting Dept. know what they're doing. If they don't, it won't matter what they do. The odds of drafting 8-9 and their all making the team aren't good. 2) Don't forget that the Jets have a lot of FAs this year, and some dead wood that needs to go. It's not likely, but all 12 picks could wind up sticking if Idzik and the Scouting Dept. do a great job in the draft. 3) The two or three players you give up to move up to take that one good player, could address multiple holes and have a greater impact on the play of the team than one excellent WR like Matthews. 4) One of the beauties of this draft is that it is so deep at WR, and the Jets could wind up getting an excellent WR in the 3rd or 4th round who winds up being as good or even better than Matthews.
Lol... It honestly doesnt take a lot of watching to realize that Hill isnt a football player. He is a track star, bottom line. He can run in a straight line very fast and thats about it. He has absolutely no fluidity to him which makes it almost impossible to succeed at the WR position which requires fluidity in and out of breaks. There's a reason why he cant create separation, and the word "raw" isnt the answer. Then we get to the fact that he struggles to catch the ball and absolutely negates his size since he's a body catcher. He cant high point the ball and he plays like hes 5'9. Ever wonder why we have not thrown the 6'4 receiver a fade in the endzone a single time in his career? And Im not exaggerating that. Not a single time. Its because he plays small, and his height means nothing. Im sick of seeing him try and run routes and catch the ball which ultimately leads to him jumping in the air, trapping the ball against his chest and awkwardly landing on his feet... The guy looks like a newborn deer. Darrius Heyward Bey is extremely fast and has good size, but he sure as hell is a bust. Once again, its not the lack of impatience. Its just watching him and seeing a player that just doesnt have the ability to be a quality NFL WR. (and this is all without mentioning the fact that he's finished both of his first two years on the IR...)
Its like the 2012 draft. If Tanny traded up to get Alshon, everyone would have loved the move. No questions asked. But since it was for Stephen Hill, its absolutely hated and no one wants to do it again. If Idzik sees a guy and knows that he can solve some of the problems at WR, I dont really have a problem with it (in this case trading a 4th + 6th to move up in the 2nd to grab Matthews).
This is right. The problem was trading up for the wrong guys, not trading up in general. Having 5 extra picks this year takes a lot of pressure off each remaining mid/low round pick to make an impact, as long as you get the quality starter you've bargained for it would work out great in this situation. I'm assuming that it'll take a little more than a 4th and 6th to get to Matthews, but regardless of the price the principle holds true and there are some other WRs to target depending with this strategy depending on how the next few months play out.
I was saying in addition to the 2nd. Obviously just hypothetical, but that would move us up about 7-10 spots in the 2nd which could put us in range for Matthews. Or he could go in the first... who knows.
Trading a 4th & a 6th is different than trading the 2nd round pick plus a 4th and/or a 5th. More often than not, I believe that trading up will wind up biting you in the butt. The 4th and 6th rounder may not amount to anything other than depth and or good STers, but even that is preferable to a guy you trade up for who busts or suffers a career-ending injury his first season, and then you have nothing to show for the trade at all. Again, imo trading up is mostly only acceptable when a team is already stacked and can afford to do it, or if a team has not been able to draft a quality QB and have a chance to trade up for a potential franchise caliber QB. This team has traded up enough over the last 10 years or so to last for 20-30 years. They have a lot of holes. Just because a guy is rated higher, doesn't mean that he will turn out to be better than another guy who plays the same position and who is drafted a couple of rounds lower. If one trades up, one better not miss, and one better have a means for recouping the picks one gave away. This team is still hurting because of all the trading up Tanny did. I don't see why that's so hard to understand and why some of you guys are still advocating trading up. You trade up because you "fall in love" with a player and think you have to have him for your team. It can and does work out, but often times that's the way teams get burned. IMO it should be done rarely.
The Jets aren't likely to do much trading up at this point. Just look at Seattle and where they built that defense. Three quarters of their secondary, the best secondary in football right now, was acquired 5th round and later. Richard Sherman - 5th round pick. Kam Chancellor - 5th round pick. Byron Maxwell - 6th round pick. Malcolm Smith - 7th round pick. These guys are all good to great starters on the best defense in the NFL right now.
My somewhat arbitrary range for him is 25-37. Wouldn't want to move up past 29th or so but I don't think he's particularly likely to last to 42. If he appears to be the guy on draft day and there is a significant perceived dropoff to the next available WR it would be reasonable to consider giving up our 3rd round pick to get him. It all depends on the board and perceived values from the Jets and other teams perspectives.
