I can't wait to dig up this thread when he gets drafted and becomes a star. Whether it be by us, which I hope to God we take him, or by another team, I will laugh so hard at this thread.
Yeah, but Jones is slow... I mean, he is Mingo at half speed. Did you watch the game tape. Also, and this is just personal opinion, Jones had an advantage over Mingo because he didn't have to play in the three point stance. When you have your hand down, it's a bit more difficult to pass rush, just my opinion. Mingo would be upright playing as an OLB for the Jets. And the closing speed, Mingo can get around the corner real fast. You cannot teach that. Light, fast players like Bruce Irvin have proven they can succeed at OLB, and Mingo is an even greater talent than Irvin.
This is not right though. Bruce Irvin took his physical talents and he destroyed opponents with them in college. He had 22.5 sacks in two years at WVU and 5 forced fumbles as a part-time player. In his last two full years at LSU Mingo had 12.5 sacks and 2 forced fumbles. You're squinting. If you squint Barkevious Mingo looks a bit like Bruce Irvin. When you open your eyes wide though it's clear that he just looks like that. He didn't actually play like that.
Irvin is three years older than Mingo but just came out last year. At the age Mingo is now, Irvin had just wrapped up community college. So it's not a fair comparison. Also, Jones is a year older than Mingo, as well. Age does matter when you are drafting because younger=more upside. Anyways, Cimini just came out with an article saying it will be Mingo and a guard if they keep both picks. I'd like to see Mingo and Cooper if they don't trade down.
Why is this even a discussion? Watch the games. One of these guys was a massive force from a hybrid front LB position in the SEC. The other guy was forgettable as a 4-3 DE in the SEC. When you obsess over vague terms like "better athleticism" you end up not actually watching guys play football. If you watch these two play football in the same conference, it's not even remotely close.
Out of this whole thread, those for Jones just say "oh, he's a beast and Mingo will be a bust". Im kind of sick of hearing that... PLEASE, when you are so opinionated on a player, describe why. Dont just say he's a beast and wreaks havoc. What about his game do you like- burst, hands, physicality, ability vs run, coverage, his bend, his fit in Rex's system, his hips, the fact that he can make plays all over the field ect ect ect.... This goes for every prospect in general. The draft section is meant for talk about what you see on tape. Try and use what you see on tape to verbalize your opinion, otherwise its hard for someone to take your view seriously. Okay Okay, sorry for my little rant.
Jones biggest assets are his closing burst and his use of his hands as he's making the tackle. He's just a violent sudden tackler and the ball comes loose a lot in situations where you wouldn't see it coming out. He also has a strong tendency to be where the flow of the play is going. He's good in pursuit on a play and he benefits often when the flow changes. We're used to guys like Calvin Pace and Bryan Thomas who can put some pressure in the backfield but rarely can finish the play. Jones is a finisher.
Laxin: tell me what you saw from Ed Reeds tape. I saw a dude who just ends up making plays. He finds the football. He leads his team. He puts up stats to back up what you see. He's also pigeon toed and nothing outstanding physically. He was a 1 star recruit out of high school. The point of bringing this up is that technique can be taught. Instinct, desire, and a knack for making plays cannot. Jarvis Jones is an OLB in a 3-4 hybrid front. Plus for us. He has an incredible motor, and dominated the toughest conference in football. He has all the numbers, and was the best player on a team that was some poor clock management away from a BCS championship. Those type of players are good investments.
I like Jones. I honestly do. But imagine - what would his production have been like if he had to play with his hand in the dirt and spent a considerable amount of time containing, like Mingo did? Probably he'd have had 3-4 sacks... point being that game tape ought to watched in context. But if we decide to go with Jones, I will support the pick... just prefer Mingo, is all.
Had to respond to this. Everybody on that list except for Jones is a DE. DE's have a shorter route to the QB on most of their rushes. They line up closer to him. Given the difference in sample size it's hard to know what to make of the numbers overall. I think that it would have been useful for the author of the piece to assess DE's and OLB's separately. Putting one OLB in the mix alongside a bunch of DE's was almost guaranteeing that he would look different, he doesn't play the same role they do. When Mingo rushed the passer he usually had somebody outside of him on the defense. When Jones rushed the passer he didn't. Different responsibilities there.
Couldn't have said it any better myself. Apples to oranges. One is a DE, the other is an OLB. Two completely different positions
Seriously bro I was going to say this before but your discussion on 4-3 and 3 point stance before was one of the biggest fail posts I've ever read. You have no clue what you are talking about, to be honest. Mingo plays in a one gap "Miami" 4-3. It is a front that is simply ideal for his size speed and skillset. It's somewhat simpleton in nature. His job is to attack a gap the entire game, either stopping the run through that gap or getting to the QB. And his production was forgettable. Jones, otoh, was a somewhat undersized OLB playing in a multiple front defense. He actually had MORE responsibilities in that system, and despite that was a beast in terms of production. Mingo displays considerably less versatility, and yet despite being a one dimensional player in the perfec system for him, he was just decent in college. It's quite simply exactly the opposite of everything you believe, smfh.
Call me crazy but I will trust the opinion of Rex in selecting a defensive player over some bozos on a message board. I prefer Mingos upside to Jones question marks. Forgetting about Jones athletic limitations for a minute he is still a huge medical concern.
Well, I just don't think you are right. I think it is easier to get to the QB playing as an OLB in a 3-4 than it is playing DE in a 4-3. And you say a 4-3 was perfect for Mingo, dead wrong, smmfh, all the experts project him as a 3-4 OLB. You have two guys you can draft to do the same job. One is faster and more athletic than the other, and hasn't been flagged as an injury risk. So if Jones is so much better then how come Mingo is ranked higher on all the experts draft boards? One other thing about Jones... 4.8-4.9 40 yard dash. UGHHH!!! You think that's gonna scare Tom Brady much???
I think they will be both be good NFL players. I don't think either is destined for greatness but they both have pro bowl upside. As for who's better..let's just agree to disagree. Really my favoring for Mingo is more about fit than anything else. I think the Jets need an athlete for that front seven.Someone who can use speed/fliexbility to take advantage of the brute physical players the Jets already have in place. Jones to me isn't that type of guy. He's a down & dirty engage to disengage/heavy pursuit type. He also is very stiff which worries me for the Jets b/c that's already been a problem for them over the last several years.It's frustrating to try & express those concerns only to have people just regurgitate what he did in college as if that's the only point that matters. It gets further frustrating when you consider the fact that Mingo's production isn't even that bad. 12.5 sacks & 20.5 TFLS as a soph & Junior in the SEC is far from Ho-hum.
What the F_ck are you talking about? There is a half second difference in their 40 times. Jones is not slow, he just doesn't have ideal staight ahead speed. That didn't stop him from being THE most productive defender the last two years. I suppose you want to draft Ghoston again. He had good 40 times.
