your 'winner' is 1-3 vs Manning in championship games.....the biggest game they could meet in. and that is with Belichick and cheating on his side... but those are team accomplishments anyway. put Br*dy on the Browns in 2000, and he becomes a less likeable Tim Couch.. (Jared comment is gold though! haha)
Why don't you mention his other 4 years in cleveland or his 6-10 and 0-2 record when he started in new england without brady. How many superbowls has he won without brady--ZERO
I've already argued a moronic point for way too long with you. You are clueless and I do not have the energy to teach you about football.
4 Super Bowls vs 2. Clutch vs. stat compiler. Better stats? Manning. Better QB? Brady. Put Montana on the 2000 Browns and he becomes a likable Tim Couch.
Didn't Ozzie continue the blueprint that Bill had built when he was hired as GM of the Ravens? I remember Ozzie being part of Bills staff in Cleveland when Art decided to leave town. If you guys ever get a chance to watch the documentary about the 95 Cleveland Browns please do. Nearly 17 years after the original Browns left Cleveland, their exodus remains a painful wound for the city. It was re-opened last month when former team owner Art Modell died. And it likely will be again Wednesday night when Cleveland '95: A Football Life premieres on NFL Network. This latest documentary in the NFL Films series focuses not so much on what was as what might have been. The Bill Belichick-coached Browns were coming off an 11-5 playoff season in 1994 and seemed perched to further buoy a city that saw the Indians reach the World Series in 1995. Instead, the civic psyche was scarred when financial challenges and the lack of a new stadium led Modell to announce the franchise's re-location to Baltimore. "You could see that good times were ahead, and it all fell apart," said Mary Kay Cabot of The (Cleveland) Plain Dealer. The Super Bowl trip that has forever eluded the Browns seemed near in large part to the talent Belichick amassed on his staff, one that included nine future NFL head coaches and general managers and three major college head coaches. Ozzie Newsome, Scott Pioli, Mike Tannenbaum, Thomas Dimitroff, Jim Schwartz, Nick Saban, Kirk Ferentz and Eric Manginiare among the names. "What was Bill looking for in people? Bill was looking for Bill, and he found a lot of little Bills," recalls Newsome, who's quick to credit Belichick's philosophies for his own subsequent success with the Baltimore Ravens. "When I won in 2000, owe a lot of that to Bill Belichick." After Belichick resurfaced with the New England Patriots in 2000, he re-hired Pioli and Dimitroff, now the GMs for the Kansas City Chiefs and Atlanta Falcons, respectively. "We spent a lot of time talking about what was good in Cleveland, what was bad in Cleveland, what went wrong in Cleveland. We kept the core of a lot of the philosophical things. There was a lot of learning from the Cleveland experience," Pioli says of the trio's time together in New England, one that produced three Lombardi Trophies for the Patriots. The Browns? They're still waiting for their first championship since 1964 and haven't won a playoff game since their 1999 rebirth. "Bill Belichick was supposed to lead this team to the promised land," says Cabot. It's a fresh and compelling look at one of the toughest chapters in NFL history and how it affected the men embroiled in it.
I thought BtQ made good points. I'll add to his good points with the fact that Brady won 3 of his 4 rings with an elite defense - the same thing you discredit Manning for.
Back on topic I hope we at least net an early 2nd this year and another 2nd next year. At minimum. We get the 15+M off our books too
We are not a stud DE away from winning the Super Bowl. I love Wilk but he handcuffs the team with his salary requirements. A 2nd rounder as opposed to one year of Wilk and nothing. I'll take the 2nd rounder.
From a guy who posts over and over on a jets message board how immortal the Patriots coach is--do us all a favor and go post on the Pats message board you great admiration for their coach.
