I totally agree.....and he'll get it, just watch and see..... then everyone will be back on the wagon. Bottom line is Vilma is a pro bowler....maybe not this year, but he'll get his :finssuck:
Our entire defense has struggled to "get" the 3-4 and each individual player has had to figure out how he can best contribute within the confines of it, Roberstson being the most glaring example. Behind Robertson, Vilma may very well be a close second in terms of difficulty with it, but it does look like most of our guys are "getting it" because our DEF as a whole looks much better as a unit now. I'm not even remotely ready yet to write Vilma off as an unsalvagable bust within the sytstem, but I am concerned about these stats. And the stats certainly don't tell it all either... I'm talking about the contribution to the overall stats or how much Vilma's play enables others' stats or the leadership and direction he offers out there. It's certain that this has not gone unnoticed by Mangini but I'm equally as confident that Mangini will find a way to maximize Vilma's talent and help him out of this. We also can assume that Vilma is very aware of this and that it bothers him greatly and that it's something he's searching for also. So, no, for the moment, I'm not losing sleep over this.
Here's what I came up with via ESPN: Urlacher has 0 sacks, 9 TFL, 1 FF, 2 INT and 6 PD Thomas has 3 sacks, 1.5 TFL, 0 FF, 1 INT and 6 PD Lewis has 2 sacks, 3 TFL, 0 FF, 2 INT and 8 PD Edwards has 1 sack, 0 TFL, 1 FF, 2 INT and 4 PD Vilma has 0 sacks, 1 TFL, 0 FF, 1 INT and 3 PD Also, Vilma has a higher percentage of "assist" tackles then these guys, here are their numbers: Urlacher - 66-32 Thomas - 63-42 Lewis - 57-14 Edwards - 63-29 Vilma - 52-39
Lets not forget that Vilma's earlier numbers were probably affected (or skewed) by the fact that the rest of our defense has been slow in learning the 3-4 also. I'd rather see what the stats look like at the end of the season, or better yet, from the Bye on forward. As the entire DEF gells and improves, so too will Vilma's numbers.
I'll admit, I'm disappointed at this point in the year with Vilma. I'm not ready to jump off the bandwagon, and it will probably take me a continuation of this into next year for me to honestly turn on him, but he has definitely been the slowest to gain success in the new scheme. Even DRob has been coming to life. I'd be okay with his performance so far if he weren't doing worse than the stats show. I'm sure everyone saw the play Sunday where he had a guy 3 yards short of the marker, but let him go. That's doesn't show in the stats columns, but missed tackles are worse than not being there to make them at all.
It's interesting in that it hasn't been the case at all. In the last 3 games Vilma has 22 tackles with only 9 of them being solos and has a big fat 0 in any other category that would appear on a stat sheet.
Yeah, I saw that too, but kind of lost it in the blur of the total game. Not good... and I remember wincing over that miss. Maybe there's something going on in his head now... trying too hard... overpursuing to compensate? I don't know, but we still need to give him into next season to get it straight and Mangini will address it, I'm sure, after the smoke clears. Vilma had too successful a college career to assume he's going to be a bust.
Hmmmm..... not good. And yet our total DEF has improved since the Bye, or at least it seems that way without going heavily into the numbers. I'm not sure I have the answer to the Vilma situation.
Just to be clear, I don't think anybody is saying he is a bust, just not the next coming of Nitschke, Singletary or Butkus that some people want to make him out to be. By the way, I'm not necessarily directing this to you 227 you just gave me a good line to hang on to. Some people in this thread feel we are giving up on JV, and I for one am just pointing out that his numbers in the past were a bit inflated, and that so far he seems a bit lost out there this year. He's still a great leader and does a good job of lining everyone up, but so far his impact plays this year have been minimal. He's a solid MLB right now, nothing more...
The lower tackle numbers may just be a product of improved DL play and/or the fact that they've probably been on the field for less plays then whey they were getting torn up in the begining of the year. From looking at the splits Hobson and Rhodes are the guys that seem to be involved in alot more plays the last 3 weeks, while Vilma and Barton are involved in significantly less. It's hard to get a read off of just 3 weeks though, hopefully the Jets D will continue to improve and these guys will be making more plays as the season goes on.
I'm pretty sure it's a lot more mental than physical. There is no question he is a gifted athlete, otherwise he would not have had the season he did last year. He'll be fine. Maybe not a perrenial Pro-Bowler, but he'll do just fine for our needs, and his leadership on the field is more than worth the lower stats. Plus, you don't have Ray Lewis complimenting you if you suck, regardless of a common alma mater.
Another thing to keep in mind with those guys is that this isn't their first year in the 3-4 while it is for Vilma. One other thing mentioned in the article that is key...
The "Rhodes effect" cannot be overlooked. His contribution this year is monumental. In effect, Rhodes is last season's Vilma. He's totally stolen the spotlight. And would Rhodes be as successful as he's been if not for all the other improving contributors, as you all point out, along what seems like an improved D-line? So yeah, Vilma's numbers are down. But if we can go 4-1 into January, ask me how much I'll really care.
Exactly. It's a team game, all moving parts that work together. Statistics for defensive players are about as useless as tits on a bull.
I'm curious how you form opinions or compare Jets players to other players around the league that you rarely or never watch play?
I have the dish, so I do watch most teams play as often as possible. To answer your question, I don't spend a lot of time comparing or even worrying about individuals, I look at how the defense as a whole is playing. Or offense, for that matter. Of course individuals will make isolated plays to stand out, but always set up or assisted by other guys who don't get credit. Even a WR with 1,000 yards on his football card can't do it if the RB doesn't pick off a blitzing defender, etc. Especially on defense, I just don't see where stats are in any way relevant.
I, too, have often watched a tackle in which the announcer says, "tackled by number 22, Justin Miller," and you've been watching the play in which a guy like Vilma is chasing and pinning this guy into a corner. He slows the guy up, grabs the guy, makes him lose his balance and then Miller comes up and nails "he tackle" statistically. It almost sometimes makes me feel sorry for the guy who did all the work and gets none of the credit... or sometimes only half. You feel like standing up and yelling out.. "No... he didn't! Give that f@cking tackle to Vilma!" But yeah... statistics are one measuring device but no stat is offered for the number of outright blown tackles... like Ty Law had last year, for example. Great number of INTs but missed some tackles that were downright embarrassing. It should be like baseball... put the strikeouts in with the homers and then we'll see what you look like. I don't think you'd see Vilma have a lot of bad stats.
Then you have guys like a DT, whose job it is to occupy three guys and get buried in a hole to free up the LBs. Do they have a stat for that?
