Yes, it was not having the second guaranteed year. People also forget that Torre held a gun to the Yankkes head after the 2004 season and after losing to Boston after being up 3-0. The championships were still close enough that he had the leverage to do it. He turned down many offers. Steinbrenner was always pissed off about the contract Swindel gave him and never thought he was getting his money's worth with the payroll they had. Three straight first round exits were clearly a justification to let him go. I just agree with junc that in hindsight they should have just done it a week ago and not made an offer at all.
I don't care what the payroll is... If you can't pitch in the postseason you're not winning jackshit...
I was talking about his 12 straight postseason appearances. A frekin chimpanzee should have been able to get his teams to the post season those 12 years.
Interviews with Mattingly, Girardi and Pena are set to begin next week. They say there are 2-3 others in the fold and those are the names of most interest. I read Cashman is vehemently opposed to LaRussa and that's a good thing.
All 3 have their pros and con.... Dunn obviously has the K issue but for the most part you know you are getting about 35-45 HRS a year. In the AL and specfically Yankee stadium I'd say closer to 45. Hunter had a big year this season but last year he was hurt and didn't do anything great. He is a great OF and definately is an upgrade over Damon. Jones hit alot of HRs but for a good part of the year it looked as if he was going to hit under .200 The question is will he rebound or is he on the decline?
I am completely worried about this as well. The only person I have faith in his Cashman, and it still seems like his role is being continuously diminished every year.
Hunter is a .271 hitter lifetime, Jones is .262 and Dunn .248. None are really that great. I never see Dunn much but I know both Hunter and Jones are terrific center fielders. Dunn obviously hits a lot of HRs as does Jones. All in all they are probably pretty comparable if Dunn is as good a fielder.
Cashman is in the last year of his contract and the writing, I think, is on the wall for him too if they don't return to the WS. Actually, I'm surprised he wasn't already let go. Steinbrenner made a much bigger point about "Cashman being on a big hook" then he did about Torre early in the year. I think what saved him were the young pitchers that he kept rather than trade away. I can't even imagine what would have happened if he gave up Hughes or Chamberlain for GagMe as Texxas was insisting.
BOSS JR. FIRES A SPITBALL AT 'INGRATE' JOE By BRAD HAMILTON October 21, 2007 -- Flashing some of his father's famous feistiness, Hank Steinbrenner fired back yesterday after hearing Joe Torre say he was insulted by the team's offer to manage the Yankees for a 13th season. "Where was Joe's career in '95 when my dad hired him?" said the new Boss. "My dad was crucified for hiring him. "Let's not forget what my dad did in giving him that opportunity - and the great team he was handed," Steinbrenner told The Post by phone from Tampa, Fla. At a press conference Friday afternoon, Torre termed the team's offer of one year for $5 million, with an added $3 million in incentives for post- season success, an "insult." Steinbrenner said the offer was fair, and that Torre had to accept part of the responsibility for the team's failures. The Yankees have not won a championship since 2000. "You can't take credit for success when you're going good, and then not take at least some of the blame when things change," Steinbrenner said. "I'm sorry he feels insulted, but that was not the intent." George Steinbrenner hired Torre after a series of disappointing managing gigs. Torre had flopped with the Mets and had an overall losing record - 894 wins, 1,003 losses, and one playoff appearance in 12 managerial seasons. "Now, was he the perfect guy to manage that team? It seems that way. He did a great job, no question." He said he likes and respects Torre, calling him a "top manager" and "class guy." "I sincerely wanted Joe to accept that offer," said Steinbrenner, who with brother Hal has assumed day- to-day decision making for the team. "We all wanted him to accept it, probably me more than anybody else." "You don't make an offer bluffing. What if he says yes?" he added. "I was hoping he'd say yes." Steinbrenner also took a swing at critics of how the team handled the Torre situation - with George blasting him during the playoffs, then taking a week to make an offer to renew his contract as speculation built that the brass's confidence in him was lost. There's "another side to the story," Steinbrenner said. Hal Steinbrenner, an MBA grad, was picked to present the Yankees' deal to Torre because of his financial background, Hank said. The offer took time to craft, he said, but the team's top executives were satisfied it was fair. "We were discussing everything, not just Joe," he said of last week's meetings in Tampa. "We took a little more time than usual [because] we wanted to make sure we got it right. "You can't have the fans and media dictate what's a fair offer. The portrayal of this being a cold business decision is completely incorrect. This was a baseball decision." Though Torre said the conversation lasted only 20 minutes and he saw no intent to negotiate on the part of his bosses, Steinbrenner said that after Torre rejected the deal and walked out, General Manager Brian Cashman raced after him in a final bid to change his mind. "Brian went to talk to Joe, tried to convince him to take it," he said. A last-minute change in Tampa prevented Cashman from flying back to New York with Torre, or the GM would have tried to get him to stay once more, he said. Steinbrenner hinted that other changes might be coming. "Joe's not going to be the scapegoat. He's not the only one that bears responsibility for what happened here," he said. Still, he said, the ending was "sad." "It was a strange day for all of us, ending a 12-year relationship. Tell you the truth, I think we're all sad. And I think Joe was, too. But sometimes things change." Regarding a Torre replacement, he said, "If there's a front-runner, it's barely a front-runner." As for the players, Cashman has been negotiating with the agents for closer Mariano Rivera and catcher Jorge Posada, Steinbrenner said. He would not disclose terms of any offers. The Yankees are united on Alex Rodriguez, he said, but they won't offer him a new contract should the slugging third baseman opt out of his current deal. "Obviously, we'd love to keep him," said Steinbrenner. "But if he opts out, goodbye." As for himself, he said his new title had not been decided, but that he will become a general partner. "It's automatic. I just haven't signed all the paperwork yet." Nor has it been decided whether he or Hal Steinbrenner, who is 12 years younger, will assume the title of managing general partner that their father has held for more than 30 years. brad.hamilton@nypost.com http://www.nypost.com/seven/10212007/news/nationalnews/boss_jr__fires_a_spitball_at_i.htm?page=0
Yep, and he's right on all points in there. Not to mention they also paid him about 50-60 million dollars over those 12 years too.
I look forward to hating Hank Steinbrenner for years on end. And he's dead wrong. History has nothing to do with it; that offer was an "insult".
Okay, now that I'm back, and I've read through the plethora of threads/posts regarding Joe, and assured myself that everyone here has absolutely zero memory, let me remind everyone of something. This offer was not a one-year deal. It was an extension on last year's "one more year". For all those that don't remember, think back to last October. Joe was looking at a final year in his contract, fresh off his second straight first round exit. George was in the media already saying that Joe was probably done. Then Brian Cashman said "Hey Boss, give him one more chance. I promise things will be different next year." So were things different? Well, if you count in that the Yankees struggled early, and for the first time in a long time didn't win the division, then yeah, Cashman kept his promise. If you count the first round exit, it was the thrid straight, so no, things haven't been different. Torre didn't deserve any better. Hell, the only reason I wanted him back was to assure the most guys would return so we'd have a good team in place for the next manager. And it's not like he was given a poor deal. The highest salary for a manager in the sport, with incentives for doing his job properly. An insult? GTFOH. Anyone who thinks a monkey couldn't have gotten this team to the playoffs the past few years with the same exact results is at least mildly retarded, and that's an insult to the mentally handicapped. Joe did not do his job, period. He took a team built by someone else to World Series titles, then road his own laurels for the next half decade. Happy Trails Joe. And next time you want to talk about how poorly the Yankees treated you on your way out, remember how many second chances you were given to try again. F**k you very much Joe.
Good to see you back Alio and you still have a knack to put it in proper perspective. BTW, an interesting article on Arod. It appears at least some people believe there is no market for Arod without the Yankees being involved. At least not at the dollars Boras is looking for. So they laugh everytime he opens his mouth. http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/b...yankees_not_listening_to_scott_boras_dem.html
Thanks for the welcome back. It was hard being away last week, what with so many things going on in baseball, especially the Yankees (and DAMN YOU RED SUX). On the subject of Torre, I just can't understand why everyone is forgetting the simple facts of the situation. He was given a second chance, numerous ones actually. Steinbrenner wanted to can him after the Yanks lost a 3 game advantage, letting the most hated of rivals win their first title in a lifetime. Cashman saved his ass. George wrote Joe's ticket out of town the next year after the team made a first round exit. Cashman again saved his ass. George was on fire and ready to publicly humilate Torre after the second consecutive first round exit. No one (and not just on this board, but everywhere,) seems to remember, The Boss called Joe into NY to fire him, end of story. While Joe slowly made his way to Yankee Stadium, Cashman sat with Steinbrenner and basically laid himself out for Joe. Cashman promised that if Joe was allowed to play out the final year of his contract, they would deliver the championship George wanted. Well sorry Joe. You once again did not deliver. I don't know wtf you expected at this point. You wanted respect? For what exactly? Honestly, a MONKEY could have taken the 2007 team to the playoffs. (Granted, he steadied the ship when the health tanked, but let's be honest, if not for Alex Rodriguez, Joe would have been fired in August.) So now one has to believe that not only is Joe gone (and being a total douchebag about the whole thing,) but is Cashman on his way out? He did lay his own job on the line last October to save Torre's. Now I don't want to lose Cashman, but it would be warranted, and I wouldn't be surprised to see it happen. The only way I think Brian comes back is if the Brothers Steinbrenner decide that this is where they'll show a "kinder, gentler" side than Dad. ---------------------- EDIT: Oh yeah, on the subject of ARod, did anyone truly believe any differently? Where the hell is Alex going to get the money he's going to get from the Yankees, along with the same opportunity to win a World Series? Boston's got the best chance, but their money isn't bottomless. The Angels and Cubs would be players, IF, and only IF, it were actually not against the rules to make him a part owner. The Mets can't afford him, as much as they'd love to try. The thing is, Alex remembers what his contract did to one team already. He wants a title more than anything, and he admits it. He's filthy rich no matter where he plays. The only difference to him is making that money while winning a ring. Boston and NY are the only two places that's even possible, and in order for Boston to do it, they need to drop some players, which is exactly what happened in Texas, which ARod is strongly against. Alex will be a Yankee the rest of his career, OR he will go down as the greatest player to ever don a cap that never won a title.
"Let's not forget what my dad did in giving him that opportunity - and the great team he was handed," Steinbrenner told The Post by phone from Tampa, Fla. Hank Steinbrenner knows all about falling into a good situation, I bet.
Of course. Especially since he wasn't even Dad's first or second choice to take over. George had already hand-picked two former sons-in-law to grab the reigns. However, both were idiots, and blew their meal tickets. Shit happens, but I'm confident that George went with people whom he truly believed would run the club the way he would want it run, even if they weren't his "top-of-the-list" guys. (Which is sad when you really think about it...)
I HATE that you are back. You make Yankee posters look too intelligent. It was fun, standing back, and watching Don represent Yankee posters.
