Tebow is the guy that lied about not choosing to go to the Jets. He's the guy that asked out of the wildcat because he was upset about being passed up for McElroy. He's the guy that caused a distraction for the Jets and McElroy in his first start by saying he wanted out of NY. He can't be blamed for all of his fans, but he can be blamed for being selfish and causing distractions.
You have no evidence at all that he asked out of the Wildcat, neither can you cite any evidence of him saying he wanted out of NY before McElroy's start.
He could control it if he chose to. He chooses not to. He sees it as a platform for his ministries. He really doesn't care what other consequences there are to his actions... There are different styles of leadership. Tebow is a loud, bull-in-a-china-shop, look-at-me, over-the-top, cheerleader type. Sanchez is a quieter, we're-all-in-this-together, lead-by-example type. Before you discount Sanchez as a leader, remember that the Jets have 2 consecutive AFCCG appearances with him. Passing is what a QB does on an Offense. He throws the football. That's his primary job. No one else on an Offense is presumed to have passing skills anywhere near what the QB has. If the QB can't pass, then the Offense has no passing game. It's really that simple. You want to minimize or ignore that because it's a glaring deficiency for Tebow. "Inconsistent?" Are you claiming Tebow is a GOOD passer, just "inconsistent?" Just how exactly is that different from being a BAD passer? "Conventional wisdom" becomes "conventional wisdom" BECAUSE IT WORKS!!! You can't really show it's wrong because it works. So instead you adopt a facade of being intellectually superior because you "think outside the box." Sorry, I'm not buying that load of crap. There's lots of different ways to utilize a "traditional QB skillset." WCO, Air Coryell, Spread, Pistol, etc. All of those approaches require a QB to be able to read Defenses, go thru his progressions, make decisions, and throw the football. If a QB doesn't have those basic skills to one degree or another, then he simply won't succeed as an NFL QB.
In the sense that I wasn't in the room, you are correct. In the sense that, "...multiple Jets sources told ESPNNewYork.com.", I consider that evidence. "Tebow was disappointed and upset enough to say he didn't want to be used situationally, sources said. He told the Jets coaches this early in the week, giving Kerley time to take practice reps." So yeah, no evidence, but reports from sources that happened to coincide with the week a change was made to McElroy at QB and a change was made to Kerley in the Wildcat. And since Tebow has already lied when it suits his purposes, there's no reason to believe him when all common sense supports him lying here. I don't have evidence that Tebow's people leaked that he wanted out of New York or that the Jets leaked it after Tebow asked out, but seeing as that is how it always goes and that Tebow does, in fact, want out of New York, I don't see why anyone would assume otherwise. I'm not sure why this surprises you. He's the same guy that transferred high schools rather than play a position other than QB. He has a history of being a team player when things are going his way, but turning on the team when asked to do something he doesn't want to do.
Actually, no, you really can't. Have you ever been standing in a room with other people, then someone walks in and all eyes turn to him or her ? I grew up in the military, so perhaps that's why I'm used to it. It's wasn't really a question of rank either. Some people are just naturally charismatic like that be they a Sergeant , a Captain, or a Commanding General. Sanchez has yet to be a leader for the Jets. He definitely didn't "lead" them to 2 AFCC appearances. You are wrong. A QBs job is to lead the team down the field and score points in whatever fashion is possible. What is currently in vogue is that the QB stand in the pocket and pass the ball. It hasn't always been that way, nor will it necessarily be that way forever going forward. We are already seeing that now with guys like Russell, Kaep and RG3. I am neither ignoring it or minimizing it. Rather, I'm not putting anywhere near as much importance on it as you are. Did you somehow miss the Pittsburgh game ? Do you really need for me to explain to you how being inconsistent at something is different than being bad at it ? Conventional wisdom becomes conventional wisdom because it's fairly safe. Doesn't matter that you aren't "buying it". And I can show that it worked, as evidenced by Denver last year and also by the adoption of the QB as a threat to run by several teams this year. [/QUOTE] Actually, the WCO takes most of the progressions out of the mix, as does the Spread and the Pistol. In these offenses, the decisions are often made based on the pre-snap read where you identify the mismatches favorable to the offense. You know, like seeing Welker lined up against a Line Backer. Guess where the ball is going ? OR Gronk lined up against an undersized DB. At any rate, it's funny that guys like you expect a young QB, with little actual starting experience, you "read" defenses and go through progressions like seasoned vets such as Peyton Manning and Tom Brady. God forbid that he might need real game experience to develop those abilities. Hell, Sanchez has had 4 years and still can't read defenses.
And reports also came out saying that Tebow never did such a thing. The entire episode stemmed from a discussion that Tebow had with Rex. If multiple "team sources" leaked the info, then they must have gotten it from Rex as they weren't in the room. Tebow explained that he let Rex know about his frustrations, and that he came to the Jets to be a QB. That is no where near the same thing as saying "I won't play WC". I dealt with a similar situation when I was younger. When I was 19, I applied for a job as a waiter and was told that I had to be 20 +1 day to wait tables. Manager told me that they would hire me immediately as a Server assistant (glorified busboy) and that after I turned 20, they'd give me a slot in the next server training class they held. I took the job and proceeded to do a pretty good job as an SA and was rewarded with a very favorable schedule (got the good shifts and the good stations). Time went by, I turned 20 and one day I came in and saw a bunch of server trainees standing around in the breakroom. Seems that a new server training class had started. I went to the manager and we had a "personal chat" about the situation. In short, I was apoplectic about the fact that a new class had started up, I had passed my 20th birthday, and apparently, I didn't have a slot in this new class. The manager told me that they were in a sticky situation as they were short staffed for Server Assistants and basically, they needed me in that position more than they needed a new waiter. So, for "business reasons", I had been skipped over. Man, let me tell you, I was pissed. At this restaurant, Waiters made two to three times more than Server Assistants, so this was messing with my potential earnings. I explained to him that I took the job because they told me that I would be in the next server class. That this was the ONLY reason I agreed to be a server assistant in the interim. That I didn't want to be a SA and make SA money, I wanted to be a freaking Server and make bank. Guess what I never said ? I never said "I WON'T DO IT", or "I'll only be a server and nothing else". Nope. What I did was state my case and explain what I had come there for. End result of the meeting was that the manager did his best to make it up to me and he promised me that I definitely would be in the next server training class. Happy to say that he lived up to his word. Tying this back in, what did Tebow do ? From the reports, he talked to Rex and expressed his unhappiness with being skipped over. He told Rex that he came to the Jets to be a QB, not to do head first dives straight into the defensive line. Wow, really ? tebow gets passed over for starting QB, hasn't been used most the year, was almost universally acknowledged to have been misused when he was put into games, and since word came out that he'd be traded, that his camp must have leaked it ? Couldn't be speculation on the part of reporters. Couldn't be the Jets front office trying to get out in front of a situation. Nope, had to be Tebow's fault. I have no problem believing that he might have asked to be traded. That said, I don't think he or his camp would leak that information. I think it much more likely that it came from the Jets, an organization that's rife with leaks and anonymous "reports".
It just so happens that I am a 30 year veteran in the Air Force. I'm not buying your "Timmy's so overflowing with natural charm and charisma that he just can turn it off" bit. BTW, you are indirectly admitting that Tebow does undermine the authority of others. We learn early on not to do that in the military. He led the Jets to those Conference Championships every bit as much as Tebow led the Broncos to a single playoff win. Actually, it's the coaches with the playbook design, gameplan, playcalling who are responsible for that. The QB plays a role in that, larger than any other player, but he still plays a role designated by the coaches. The QB isn't out there doing it all by himself. The difference between Tebow and Russell, Kaep, RGIII, etc, is that those other QBs can still stand in the pocket and deliver the ball.. Because an inability to pass makes Tebow look bad. Again, no one else on the team does that job. The rules currently favor passing heavily over running. Without a viable passing game, an Offense becomes one-dimensional and far easier to defend. You need to be able to pass. Yes, I saw the Pittsburgh game. That doesn't excuse his total inability to pass against the Chiefs in an embarrassing 3-7 loss the week before. If you can't count on some sort of basic level of performance out of your QB, then he's BAD. And it wouldn't be "fairly safe" if it didn't work. What worked for Denver last season was a soft stretch in their schedule against horrible teams like Miami and teams like Chicago who lost too many key personnel to injury. The run option was a gimmick Offense like Miami's wildcat that NFL teams aren't built to defend. And like the wildcat, it was successful for a while. But once NFL DCs figured out the adjustments, it was shut down - see Denver's 1-4 finish... I didn't mean to imply that all of those schemes demanded the same level of ability by the QB with each of those skills. It varies. But Timmy can't read a Defense to save his life, either pre- or post-snap. Not like Manning, but they should show some sort of improvement from season to season. A lot of the ability to read Defenses comes from endless hours of film study. Most Tebow supporters try to excuse Timmy from that because of his dyslexia. Sorry that I can't. Tebow graduated from the University of Florida. He found ways to deal with his dyslexia in the classroom. So he can do it. And if he can't I'm sorry, this is the NFL. You don't get a free pass because of a handicap. You have to be able to do the job.
Possibly, either way, with two games left in the season, Tebow decided it would be better to ask to be traded rather than wait two more weeks. Either scenario doesn't look good for Tebow, whether Tebow's people leaked it or the Jets leaked it. You, yourself, state that the organization is "rife with leaks", which means if you know it, Tebow's people know it. They also know everything Tebow does is news. McElroy was getting his first ever start and rather than be a supportive teammate, Tebow caused a distraction. He might be a nice guy, but he's not a good teammate. He's a selfish football player.
Tebow claimed he never asked out. That's different than "reports came out saying that Tebow never did such a thing." Tebow's credibility was shot when he lied about choosing the Jets over the Jags. Once he set the precedent that he'd lie for whatever reason (and I'm assuming it was to protect his image in his hometown), he made it a reality that you can't necessarily believe what he claims. You're entirely speculating about him "voicing his frustrations" vs "asking out of wildcat." As for team sources not being in the room, we have no idea who was anywhere. We only know that the reports said Tebow asked out and what the player and coach said in response to the uproar. I find it hard to believe that if Tebow did ask out of it, the only time he expressed it was in a private face-to-face meeting with Rex Ryan. And to your last point above, Tebow has no say in what he came to the Jets to do. He's under contract and is a "team player." He's there to help the team win. I'm sure many players don't agree that their usage is best helping the team win, but it isn't their say just like it isn't Tebow's say. I said in the post above, but if you know that a likely scenario is that the Jets leaked it, I have a hard time believing that Tebow or his people wouldn't know that, too. There were two weeks left in the season. STFU and support McElroy, a young guy getting his first ever chance. In terms of reporter speculation, I see a lot of people talk about reporters making things up, making up sources or claiming speculation as fact. Reporters don't do that. If a reporter says a source told them something, a source told them that thing. Maybe the source lied or whatever, but reporters don't make stuff up. They also don't speculate in a news report. That's not to say it has never happened in the history of the media, but I've never met a single reporter that didn't take extreme pride in their accuracy. Making up sources = throwing away your career.
Are you working for north Korea propaganda machine or what? Repeating yourself won't make your argument stronger without solid evidence.
Well I'm glad you're finally able to admit that the Offensive play-calling had a lot to do with the low-scoring nature of the Broncos Offense under Tebow in 2011. By the way, that's a hint for your answer as to why the Broncos scored almost 7 more points per game in Tebow's 2010 starts than in his 2011 starts.
*sigh* OK, JF. I give up. Not because you are right. But I have better things to do with my life than to argue with some socially-stunted individual who's still living in mommy's basement spending their all of their waking hours on the internet. You and D9 will NEVER see Tebow as a suck-ass QB that the lowly Jets are going to try and trade for a half-eaten baloney sandwich before they just outright cut him because no one is interested. As a FA, Tebow will generate absolutely no interest. Hell, the CFL probably won't want him either. Well, maybe he can get a job backing up his former Gator teammate Chris Leak again on the Orlando Predators. Bye-bye. I'm done discussing a crappy QB with Teboners who have lost all grip on reality...
When you start contradicting your own arguments, it is probably a smart play to give up the discussion. All you haters have argued incessantly that when Tebow's performance wasn't great that it had nothing to do with play-calling and everything to do with him. Now you contradict yourself by using the "it was the play-calling" argument to try and help explain the win streak in Denver in 2011. You can't have it both ways. And I note that you still haven't made an attempt to answer why the 2010 Broncos Offense under Tebow scored almost 7 more points per game than the 2011 Broncos Offense under Tebow (and a different head coach)....
Exactly. Isn't "voicing frustrations" about being a wildcat situational player basically expressing your desire to be used as a regular QB instead of the way he was being used? For the last few years, we were fed all that garbage on how he was such a "good soldier, just doing whatever he was asked to do." But even he will get to a point where he will start griping. but he had made a pretty good living off his squeaky clean "humble" image. As soon as ANYTHING comes out to the contrary, they run to damage control rather than simply admit he's human. That happened when he lied about why he didn't go to Jacksonville claiming he didn't have a choice. They threatened that broadway chick that put their picture on the internet with a lawsuit if they didn't yank it. Just drop the act Tim and act like the rest of us. it's okay to get pissed off about your situation, it really is.
And ? Expressing your desire to be used as a regular QB instead of the way you are being used is NOT THE SAME AS REFUSING to be the WC QB. As I said in my personal example, I expressed my desire to be a waiter, and told them that was why I had agreed to be an SA in the interim. What I never did was threaten anything or say that I wouldn't do the job that they were asking me to to at the time. Hell, let's take the WC out of it. How many times have you heard people talking about the fact that the 2nd string QB WANTS to be the starter. That they have that DESIRE. Going further, that teams shouldn't want a 2nd string QB that DIDN'T have that DESIRE. 2nd string QB would tell the coaches "I WANT TO START". Would that be a refusal to be the backup QB ? Of course not. Would it be insubordinate ? Hell no. What it would do is speak to the competitiveness and heart of the person. But since it's Tebow, oh no, it's an awful thing to do. Makes him a bad teammate.
True, but the hype about Tebow is that he always does what he is told and doesn't complain. He's a good soldier doing whatever asked to do and to do whatever it takes. So they put him into the wildcat and give him time at special teams... and he bitches about it. Sure, he might not have REFUSED to do it, but he sure made it clear he wasn't happy about it. He sees himself as a regular NFL QB, and that is fine. But I have a difficult time swallowing the idea that a super comtetitive guy like that was merely voicing his frustration about the wildcat. He's tired of being a joke in this league. ....and that is fine. The reason people are making a big deal about this is indeed because it is Tim Tebow. He's being peddled as someone that is above such things, as a very humble guy, etc. Yet it turns out he is really like the rest of us. ...and at the time this came out, word was out that he was going to ask to be traded at the end of the season. So there was more to it than voicing frustrations. Since we saw less of Tebow and more Kerney, I'm led to believe ther is a lot more to it. Yet his fans insist it wasn't really a complaint. That Tebow NEVER talked about a trade. Sounds like damage control from the Tebow camp to me, as he was already caught being dishonest about choosing the bigger platform in New York than his home town. Rex sure treated him like he wasn't in the future plans at that point, so there's gotta be more to it than him merely voicing his frustrations. Tebow does have an ego just as everyone else does. He believes as his fans do that he should be out there regardless of what he shows the coaches in practice. Opinions seem mixed depending on who you ask on whether he is a good/bad teammate. Most of it seems to be more about him sucking and yet being the face of a franchise.
Tim is a very humble guy that just wants to play the sport he loves. I don't see why Tim would lie about asking out of the wildcat plays. He has said that he never asked out of anything and would never not do something if he was asked. That just not who Tim is as a football player or a person.
He also said he didn't really have a choice in which team he got traded to, which John Elway came out and corrected immediately. I guess Tim didn't really want to hurt the feelings of his fans in Jacksonville. but he lied. I think he's lying about the wildcat plays too. It is obvious by now that his image is the most important part of his NFL career. So when a conversation he thought was going to be private ended up being made public in a light that might make him look unfavorable,yeah, he and his storm troopers will spin six ways from Sunday. Just admit he got frustrated with his role and got pissy about it with the coach and move on.
