Jets since 2015...Macc really is a failure and should go if he fails again this year

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by Brook!, Apr 25, 2019.

  1. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    You say this (the bolded) because you believe in Macc's ability to make good decisions. I do not. I base my belief on his 5 year record. It's highly unlikely that he had NO offers. Whether those offers were too little, we don't know, but he put himself in a position of being needy, and that's on him. He needed to fill more holes than he had picks and he should've done a better job of figuring out how to avoid that. You want to continue to excuse his mediocre performance, that's your prerogative, but I don't and that's mine.
     
  2. Sam Hammer

    Sam Hammer Well-Known Member

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    I'm not assuming anything. I'm admitting I don't know as much as a GM and entire scouting team and I'm willing to give it a chance and see how it works out before whining about it. I'm not using that argument to praise him, I'm dismissing the assumption that it will fail, since it relies on something that hasn't happened yet. It's fallacious.

    Gase really likes Harrison and he was good down the stretch last year. Just because I'm dismissing the assumption of failure doesn't mean I'm arguing for the opposite position.

    I said there were not any trade options with good value for the pick. Why would he give up the best overall player in the draft for pennies on the dollar? Again, all I'm saying is STOP MAKING ASSUMPTIONS and complaining about things that haven't even happened yet.

    You don't know anything about any trade options that were on the table. You don't know anything about the value of such options.
     
    #182 Sam Hammer, May 10, 2019
    Last edited: May 10, 2019
  3. Sam Hammer

    Sam Hammer Well-Known Member

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  4. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Did you read that line before you posted it? How do you know he was only offered "pennies on the dollar". Oh, right, you're assuming that.
     
  5. Sam Hammer

    Sam Hammer Well-Known Member

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    So you are calling me a liar now? Once again you ignore the context of my post to isolate a single line. It is not an assumption. There weren't any top notch QBs at the top of the draft like in 2018. The value was not anywhere near there.

    If you are claiming there were fair offers on the table, then post them here and we can analyze it. I'm basing my argument on the QB talent in that draft. Who was trading up there for good value? Please name the team and the offer.
     
  6. Darnasty

    Darnasty Well-Known Member

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    It’s a pretty fair assumption to assume the offers weren’t there for the 3rd pick.

    How many times in draft history have teams traded into top 5 for a non QB? I don’t know the answer but I’d assume not many.

    I can think of one off the top of my head that ended pretty badly for the team trading up, that team certainly did not get a bowling ball with knives.
     
  7. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    My apologies, it was a typo (which I fixed apparently after you posted).

    I've already acknowledged that I - nor you or anyone - knows what offers there were. But you're assuming they weren't any good. I'm assuming - based on Macc's record - that they might've been, especially since he was in a position of need.
     
  8. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    But we don't even know if someone was trying to trade up for a QB, do we? We just know that Macc said he had offers but he didn't like them.
     
  9. Darnasty

    Darnasty Well-Known Member

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    Well it’s been reported that Mac spoke to the Raiders and Bills while OTC, both of which were thought to have been trying to go up for Quinnen.

    I think it is very safe to assume no team was trying to move up for a QB considering both teams that took QBs just stayed where they were and let the QBs come to them.
     
  10. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    Well if that's true, I would've given up Quinnen to get the additional high picks I needed. Not to mention that if it was with the Raiders, he would've gotten Allen or another quality Edge rusher, and likely then gotten a quality OL.

    EDIT:

    And no, I don't think "it's very safe to assume no team was trying to move up for a QB" just because the two teams that took one gambled - correctly - that the guys they wanted would be there at their pick That doesn't mean other teams who might've really wanted a QB but were too far down didn't try to make a deal to move up.
     
    #190 ColoradoContrails, May 10, 2019
    Last edited: May 10, 2019
  11. Darnasty

    Darnasty Well-Known Member

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    So you think a team past 15 was willing to go to 3 but they couldn’t strike a deal with any of the teams from 3-14?? Really??

    Yes I would say it is very safe to assume there was no team trying to get to 3 for a QB. All it takes is some common sense.
     
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  12. SOJAZ

    SOJAZ Well-Known Member

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    Usually agree with your assessments but there is just to much maybe and what if to your argument. Sorry we disagree...
     
  13. SOJAZ

    SOJAZ Well-Known Member

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    Thank you... you know what assumptions mean right...
     
  14. themorey

    themorey Well-Known Member

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    I don't understand how a team that places a ridiculously high premium on interior DL for pass rush can ignore our own interior OL. You'd think we would want to stop other teams interior pass rush since it's so fucking important. Sure KO will help but the line is only as strong as it's weakest link, which appears to be our C situation.

    I also don't get how the team preaches competition at every position yet for C they're happy with Harrison, Toth, and whatever scraps other teams cut?
     
  15. tomdeb

    tomdeb Well-Known Member

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    You call me confused, but you say Mac "hit" on Luvu (?). I'm glad you told me that--I had not noticed. I guess Polite was a foolish pick then since we have in Luvu as rush LB, whatever his first name is.
    Mac is "well above average" in rounds 4-7 and the only two in five years you can name are Herndon and and the trade for Anderson. Not much of a track record there
    "yet to have a first round bust"? What do you call Darron Lee, who teams have run at and over for the last 3 years--just had his fifth year option declined by the jets-- shopped him during the draft and still are. Why do you think MacIdiot gave Mosely the highest contract ever for an ILB if Lee was not a bust?
    But, bottom line, just look at 5-11, 5-11 and 4-12 the last three years--justify that for me if MacCagnan is "hitting" on all these picks.
     
  16. NYJ1970

    NYJ1970 Member

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    I think he's done. His draft was almost all high risk/high reward potential type picks. Those picks smack of desperation. The Jets still suck and won't be good enough to earn a playoff spot this season.
     
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  17. tomdeb

    tomdeb Well-Known Member

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    Hammer and Darnasty can keep singing MacCagnan's praises, but the last three years the jets were 5-11, 5-11 and 4-12. This was his 5th draft/offseason and his team keep regressing--look at their record. The jets will be approaching this season with a former undrafted free agent at center who started 8 games last year, 7 of which we lost. Hell, the only game (singular) the jets won with Harrison at C last year was at the last second on a 4th and 1 play. The jets will be starting a former 7th round pick of another team as their second CB, and he is also a lifetime reserve. Their OL was ranked amongst the NFL's worst last year, is OLD, and without any young stud to build around. We have announced we are playing a 3-4 defense, but already have WAY more DL than most teams that play 4-3 have. Instead of trading down, we used our first round pick on a DL who should be in a 4-3, but won't be with the financial commitments to 3-4 players like Williamson, Mosely and Anderson. I don't look for the jets to win more than 6 games this year, with that swiss cheese OL. Going 6-10 this year (If they do that) will mean the likes of Hammer and Darnasty will demand an extension in Maccagnan's contract, citing the 2 game improvement from the 4-12 record Maccagnan achieved in his FOURTH year as GM. Okay, I'm done with this thread. Hammer and Dynasty, feel free to shout out again what a great GM we have...and how only Mike MacCagnan's foresight got us our four wins last year. You can have the last word.
     
  18. 101GangGreen101

    101GangGreen101 2018 Thread of the Year Award Winner

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    If this team wins 9 games, and makes the playoffs he gets a 2 year extension easily. After reflecting on the draft, I like what did Mac overall. If Quinnen, Polite and Wesco can contribute, then it would be a win for the Jets. Is it weird, that I am kind of liking the moves he's been making lately? Wasn't a fan at all early on ...

    He needs to bring back Claiborne, and make sure he looks at the upcoming cuts.
     
    #198 101GangGreen101, May 10, 2019
    Last edited: May 10, 2019
  19. NYJetsO12

    NYJetsO12 Well-Known Member

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    He's in year 5 ...I suppose by year 10 will be getting somewhere

    The critics here are judging him on a 5 year sample..he's done an average job (at best) no more no less >>>>>for every Sam Darnold level move gets equaled out by the Lorenzo Mauldins Trumaine Johnsons and Devin Smiths
     
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  20. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry but your bolded sentence is simply not true. You said:

    You didn't say anything about "value." You said there was no option, period. You may have been thinking it or meant to say it, but didn't, and I'm not a mind reader. Then you tried to start a strawman argument when none of us had said anything even remotely to suggest that we thought that Mac could force another team to make a trade. That's deflecting at its finest/worst. The bottom line is that Mac got trade offers. He could have traded down. We don't know what the "value" was of those offers or what deals were proposed, and we may never know, but then again, those kinds of things often have a way of making their way into the light in future years. They may not have been for great value, but they could have been good and very fair value, but Mac got greedy or was just in love with Q. Williams, so it's a fair point to question. You also speak as if QBs are the only players/positions that teams will trade up for, and this isn't accurate. So imo you made a false assumption regarding the QBs in this draft and Mac not getting offered value in a trade down.

    We're not going to agree, so I see no point in further discussion. FA and the draft have happened. The last 5 years have happened where Mac didn't make the OL a priority, where he has missed badly on every WR he's drafted, and made a number of questionable decisions, and doesn't seem to have a plan or blueprint for putting the team together.

    Sure, both Harrison and Roberts could work out, but the bottom line is that he has left the Jets in a vulnerable position of quite possibly having to go into the season with two glaring holes, and it was totally unnecessary. He should have signed players at both positions in FA. They didn't have to be the best players available at those positions, just someone who had more experience at the positions, or someone younger with perhaps more potential/upside for competition. Then if Harrison and Roberts proved to be worthy and won the starting job, no one could complain, and if Mac wanted to cut the players he signed to gain back cap space, he could have, or he could have kept them as insurance. IMO that's what a good GM would have done.
     
    #200 NCJetsfan, May 10, 2019
    Last edited: May 10, 2019

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