If you'd like to look at it that way- 97% of the NFL deemed that Schlegel was NOT a third round pick. The team with the least experienced GM and HC thought he was. What don't you get? Nobody had Schlegel, the 5th or 6th best defender on his own team as a third rounder. He's a reach, plain and simple. Find one scouting report that even says he has starting ability.
What report have you seen, from an NFL scout employed by an NFL team, or from a NFL coach or general manager? Don't even give me the name, just tell me the team. Bottom line, you haven't. You're basing your opinion on other people's opinions, other people that don't know squat about these players when compared to an NFL organization. It's like cell phones and fantasy football. When it first started, it was fun. Now that everyone has one or does it, it's annoying. I feel the same about people that think they know everything about the draft, because they read some guys opinion on the internet. Kiper is just about the best in the business. There's a reason that outside of his top 10-20 picks, his draft board falls to pieces. You can watch all the college football you want, and break down numbers from the combine and senior bowl like they're gospel, but you still won't know half of what the NFL teams know about these players.
You don't know that. Scouting reports like Kiper or anyone elses that you or I see, mean jack shit. Period. No one knows the boards of the NFL teams. They have their own scouting departments for a reason. You have no idea if every teams draft board's had them ranked lower except the Jets. The ONLY thing that matters is SB rings and production on the field. NFL teams, owners, FOs, could care less how their drafts are rated by the fans or writers for ESPN. And if they do they are morons. Their job is to win SBs and games. If a front office believes a player can help them win, it their job to get that player. Not to worry about how someone will grade them or perceived value. For people who say "It does not matter if a player turns out to be a HOF or bust, what matters is getting value for the picks" I say that is a load of crap. The idea is to win SBs and games. Not to get perceived "value" or grading well in an draft. That means getting players to help you win, and making sure you get those players befor other teams do. All of this other stuff is crap and irrevelant. I want to see production on the field, therefore I will reserve judgement until I see how these players do on the field, because that is all that matters.
Don't even bother arguing with this guy anymore. He obviously doesn't know what he's talking about, and he treats Kiper's board as the golden ticket to paradise. The bottom line is that nobody knows how each player is graded. Each team grades players according to their own guidelines and needs. They do not follow the grades of Kiper or some other scouting agency. Tangini saw something in Schlegel that made them think he will be a starter in this league. Judging players as busts or reaches before they have even played one snap is simply foolish.
I think it is funny that it took almost a month after the draft for this to become a discussion. Gabe Watson is an underacheiver and Max Jilles is 400 pounds. There is a reason that they fell so far in the draft. Just because someone 5 months ago said they were 1st round picks doesn't mean they are. They fall, people say, OOOOH, WHAT A GOOD DRAFT!!!! Little do they realize, that 31 other teams passed on these players 5 times each. Watson and Max will be busts.
Man, I wish I had your job. So how does it feel having the inside knowledge of every franchise in the NFL?
Actually Brandt had him as a wild card rated inside LB and really liked him as a 2 down run stuffer in a 3/4 D. If we get a smart guy who can step in and play from day 1 as an everyday 2 down inside LB with a 3 that will end up being a good value pick.
Jets screwed up the 3rd round? I've been a Fan of the Jets since 81 I've seen players come and go. Intangibles is what adds to the players talent Wayne Chrebet - (UFA) : Fearless, Tough , Smart Johnny Mitchell, Blair Thomas, Roger Vick, Ryan Yarbrough, Alex Van Dyke - All of these people here are busts and Head cases. The Draft is a crap shoot. So dont complain about the players the team didn't draft That you liked. I'm not in the war room and you aren't either. We (as Fans) havent really interacted with these college players coming out of school. What 1st year coach wants to deal with head cases and character issues.During the Combine interviews and the vists the team do on each player This is how they find out about how smart a player is or are there any character problems,How well they read and break down film, and understand the scheme or football in general. When you get to the NFL It dosent matter what you did in college it matters what you do in the league where they play for pay. So instead of complaining about a player now wait until 3 years have gone ny ro say some one is a bust or a special teamer. Wait until they play on Sunday to judge thier talent and heart.
I agree, it doesnt matter whether the jets draft board had them rated as high players, the fact that we could have chosen them later is a big mistake, especially with the talent on the board.If we didnt trade that pick in the 3rd round for a couple sopts we could have gotten players such as Brian Calhoun,Jerrious Norwood or Maurice Stovall. And if we waited in the 5th and 6th we could have still picked up Eric Smith and Anthony Schegal instead of picking up Drew Coleman and Jason Pociask, cause they would have most likely been there.
The fact is, most of the time if a high profile player really falls there is a major reason for it. Lets face it, if a guy is truly that talented and such, teams aren't just gonna "forget" thats he's available. Odds are there is a major concern in terms of health, character or scheme. When you're building a champion..these things really matter. Acouple examples? -Antajj Hawthorne was once thought of as a top 20 pick and he slipped to round 6. What has he done thus far in the NFL? - Derrick Strait was pegged by many, including Mel Kiper as the best pure corner in the draft, won all kinds of collegiate awards and was a standout at the senior bowl. We took him in round 3, and the Kiper lovers had a party. What was forgotten is how many teams that needed corner help passed on him. As we are seeing now, there was a major reason for that; lack of straight line speed.
You guys don't get it ... Gabe Watson and Jean-Gilles are bigger names! The f*** is a Schlegel? Who cares if they were looked down on by real NFL scouts and slid way past where the internet experts projected. Pick them because Ourlads says they're gold! Obviously when the Jets pick a guy we've never heard of, who the experts had rated low, it means he sucks and we reached. But when one of the guys who the internet sites were drooling over slides big time, we need to scoop him up, because they must know something that the real scouts don't.
How do you know we could have picked them later? Because some guys with no affiliation with any NFL team had them rated lower? Guys that take their measurables, plug them into a spreadsheet, and get a grade on them? You do realize that 90% of the guys that make these draft boards have never met the player, and have probably watched an extremely limited amount of tape on the player, don't you?
Nobody knows. But we do know is that the experts whether you like them or not are very accurate with their forecasts. We also know that that there is only one team that substantially devaited from the experts boards and that was the Jets. Either you can say all 31 teams and the experts were wrong and Jets were right or you could conclude just maybe the Jets FO is just a bit out of touch with the rest of the league and with what is good or bad value. But regardless of that no matter how much you like a player it is not good to target only 1 or 2 players and take them early. Yes its ok to do that once or twice but not every pick. Look at what teh Steelers and Eagles do every year. They target lots of players and they are not afraid to lose those players. They wait until someone drops and get great value. Consiistently those teams get 1-2 round better value each round. Now look at the Jets approach of targetting 1-2 players and taking them 2-4 rounds early. Yes they get their players but they pay a huge amount for them. Its not a smart use of your picks. The best player you draft is sometimes the player you don't draft. Learning how to wait and be patient enough until someone falls you to is how you get value and how good teams are built. These guys showed their inexpereince. But whats done is done. While I will root for Shelegal and all the draft picks maybe the best thing that can happen to the Jets is for Shlegal, Smith and their other reaches to flop. Maybe then they will do a bit better next year and show more displine and patience.
Even if you feel that our pair of 3rd round picks were not reaches, you have to agree they were too draftees that did not fill NEEDs. With Vilma, Barton, Hobson and Kassell, we did not NEED another ILB. We have 2 great young safeties in Rhodes and Coleman; we certainly did not NEED a safety in Day 1 of the draft. It was rumored that the Saints demanded our 2 1rsts (4th and 29th overall) and our 3rd (97th overall) for the 2nd overall pick. At the time, I thought Tanny and Mangini did the right thing by turning down the Saints' proposal because we had simply too many NEEDs to trade 3 Day 1 picks for one player. But had I known we only going to use 3 out of our 5 Day 1 picks on positions of NEEDs and the other 2 on, more than likely, special teams players, I might have reconsidered. D'Brickashaw Ferguson, Nick Mangold, Kellen Clemens, Anthony Schlegel, Eric Smith = 2 immediate starters, 1 potential starter & 2 special teamers next season. Reggie Bush, Winston Justice, Mark Anderson = 2 immediate starters & 1 potential starter I agree that there were better talent and more importantly players that filled more NEEDs on the board. However, I don't agree with some of the players and/or positions that many posters on this thread felt we should have drafted in substitute. I think the NT position will be handled by committee (Robertson, Pouha & Pope) so I wouldn't have drafted Watson. I would have tried to fill our need for a pass rushing DE/OLB hybrid by drafting a guy like Mark Anderson of Alabama, especially since we missed out on Gogong. Another need that I see goes unnoticed is our need for a 3-4 DE. Yes, we have Ellis on one side and Von Oelhoffen on the other but after them there's really only Ball. Plus Von Oelhoffen is just a stop gap. A guy like Rodrique Wright or Anthony Montgomery would add needed depth. Drafting a playmaking WR or more Olinemen wouldn't hurt either.
