I'm talking about the second kick. We did all we could to get closer on the first one, we took a knee for the second kick, which was a mile off.
The really frustrating part of that loss was that we kicked their tail all over the field that day in their own house. Classic example of one of those games where one team plays better than the other and still loses. Heartbreaking loss...
We could talk hypothetical situations all day long but the bottomline is Doug Effin Brien did not approach that kick with the right frame of mind.. Would've his approach been different if we were 3 yds or 10yds closer we will never know. Brien choked, there is no other way around it, the only way he makes that kick is if they moved the uprights to the sideline.
really the blame is both Herm and Brien, Herm should not have been so conservative, but Brien missed twice when they were definately in "field goal range"
It's a lousy place on a lousy day to be expecting your kicker to win the game for you. But my point is, it should never have come down the kick. What lost that game is conservative, crappy, play-not-to lose playcalling and coaching. The Jets players on the field played better than the Steelers did. Rothlisberger was talking to himself. We had his number that day and Chad was moving the ball on offense. Herm and Hackett should never have let it come down to that. Conservative, conservative, conservative. Absolutely ridiculous.
That is all very true but I said this that night and I still believe it.. A big time kicker is making that kind of kick in that type of spot..
I agree, Vision, but this only validates my point! Brien was far from a "big time kicker." Herm and Hackett both knew that.
Very true. You have to know your personnel, probably John Hall drills that through, at least one of them. If all they had time to do was line up for a FG you take your chances. When you have time and TOs left, a back who doesn't fumble and a QB who's never been picked in the red zone, you have to AT LEAST TRY to get closer before settling for the lower percentage kick. Again, if nothing else, center the ball.
its herm/paul hacketts fault. would it have killed them to get a few more yards for brien? that game actually made me cry, AND THATS HERMS FAULT.
I think the poll results are a little misleading here. I think at the time it happened, 95% would have said it was Brien's fault. But now all we remember is the bad of Herm now that he ditched us. But my feeling was always that, although Herm didnt make the best calls at the end of the game, his saying was always that "You play to win the game" and he put his team in position to win the game. Brien had two frickin chances to win the game under 50 yards. If you remember i think Parcells was the coach, John Hall hit a 53 yarder to get us into the playoffs. 47 and 45 or what ever they were should have been a sinch.
Actually that was Herm's first year, 2001. As I said before, I think Hall would have made at least one of them. He missed a couple big ones but he made a lot more than he missed, and he had much better range than Brien. But Herm has to know who his kicker is, he can't base Brien's range on what Hall did.
Herm and Hackett for me, what a sham that was. At least against Denver in 98 we werent outcoached, this game common sense was not a strong point in our HC and OC.
One thing not mentioned in this thread is that had the Jets went to New England....there was a blizzard in New England on the day of the Pittsburgh/New England game played in Pittsburgh. Not a snowstorm, a blizzard....so anything could have happened. Now, since we're drudging up bad memories in this thread everyone remembers Brady in a blizzard against the Raiders and the tuck rule followed by snow angels, but blizzard games are low scoring so we couldda won. Some of those Jets had experience in that weather from the Steelers game at the Meadowlands two years prior. Couldda, wouldda, shouldda......
For all those who blame Herm for the knee, two critical facts need to be kept in mind: 1) Doug Brien requested that the ball be moved off of the hash mark because it would make his kick easier. The kneel down ensured that without putting possesion at risk. 2) How many yards did the knee cost Brien? 2? Maybe 3? If there were two sets of goalposts stacked next to each other, Brien's kick still would've been wide. The knee didn't cause him to miss the kick, the tough Heinz Field conditions (and Brien's suckiness) did. 3) If Herm had put the ball in play and it was fumbled, he would've become instantly the most reviled coach in football history. I've even read in some of these many, many threads about this topic that some posters think that the Jets should've tried passing to the end zone in that situation. To which I can only say...why? The bottom line is that no coach in football would've put the ball in play once they got to field goal range in that situation. Nobody would risk a turnover there. Most wouldn't have kneed it--they would've just kicked the field goal and taken their chances on the kickoff. Whether or not you agree with Herm's decision to move Brien back 3 yards (and set him up for a straightaway kick) it doesn't change the fact that Brien takes the blame for choking twice with the game on the line. If Brien hits either of those two field goals (which, granted, were difficult but his job is to make difficult kicks) then nobody would remember the knee at all. The kicker failed his job, it's the kicker's fault.
I didn't think Moss was better than Coles and I still don't despite his great year last year but I still didn't want to get rid of Moss. The 47 yarder hit the crossbar the 43 yarder(the kick after we took the knee) he missed wide left and wasn't close.
I totally agree that Brien failed in his job. If he requested the ball be at the left hash then my bad, usually you center the ball like an extra point. The knee still makes no sense. If you're at the edge of the kicker's range, why move back at all? If you're at the 10, yes--the 28, no. We had Curtis Martin, who always hangs onto the ball. He could have gone forward three yards, kept the clock moving and still kept it at the left hash if that was Brien's preference. I'm not excusing Brien at all, but Herm didn't give him the best kick he could have given him.
I agree with the premise of your post, I do put the majority of blame on Brien. Like you said he choked, there is no other way around that.. But you are kidding yourself if you think no other coach would have put the ball in play in the situation they were in. You have the leading rusher in the NFL who might be one of the most responsible RBs in history in protecting the ball.. There was enough time to just run the ball up the gut 2 times and hopefully pick up another 5-7 yards. That might have been enough for Brien to have lined up to kick in a better frame of mind.. Herm did not put Brien in the best position to succeed but regardless of that Brien should have made the kick..
