Jets offensive line will get Zach hurt

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by JetsAreBadForYourHealth, Sep 12, 2021.

  1. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

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    At what point do we become concerned that we're starting offensive linemen that obviously aren't good in order to defend JD's bad decisions?

    McGovern was atrocious yesterday, Becton too. Two JD guys. McGovern was mediocre last year and the OL was noticeably better with Becton out yesterday. Should we be concerned that the organization perhaps doesn't want to admit they whiffed on these two guys, to the detriment of our rookie QB?

    Whether we want to admit it or not, job security plays a significant role in the decisions that coaches and GM's make. Being a GM is inherently a balance of actually producing a good team and keeping up the perception that you're making good personnel decisions. It was glaringly obvious that the OL was better with Becton out, but it looks horrible for a GM if we can't play the OL he took 11th overall a year ago because he's so bad.
     
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  2. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    not sure about the becton hate. he was fine as was fant and moses when he came in. the issue was the interior. AVT, mcgovern, and GVR were all bad in pass protection and the RBs kept missing blitz assignments and the IOL couldn't adjust to stunts.
     
  3. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

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    The interior was bad as well but our OL was getting absolutely roasted on the edges before Becton went out and they moved Fant and Moses around. This is in addition to us hearing nothing but bad things about Becton's performance in training camp.
     
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  4. Cman65

    Cman65 The Dark Admin, 2018 BEST Darksider Poster

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    2024... and counting
     
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  5. NYJFOREVER

    NYJFOREVER Well-Known Member

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    The OL looked better when Becton went out because Fant wasn't playing RT anymore. Fant was far and away the worst player on that OL yesterday.
     
  6. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    only becuase the RBs didn't pick up the blitzers. you can't expect your OTs to block their man and pick up a blitzer. that was on the RBs
     
  7. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    And also because Becton was playing like a pile of shit. Look, I have been a big supporter of both Becton and JD, but getting back to the subject of this thread, Zach will absolutely get hurt if this continues. And both of them carry serious responsibility for what took place. The fact Becton was subbed by Moses and OL got better is not a great endorsement for Mekhi. Not to mention he got hurt yet again and will take a long time to come back, get in game shape, and drastically improve his atrocious performance from before he got hurt.

    And JD and coaches also carry a lot of responsibility. On one of the hits I thought for sure Zach had broken/bruised ribs and/or would be concussed. Thankfully the guy is very durable in spite of smaller size, but he will get seriously hurt if this keeps going.
     
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  8. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    So i'm looking over all 6 sacks in my replay and here is what I found (E) is for sacks he escaped

    1) this one seems to be on fant. burns came in unblocked. they only rushed 4. fant picked up the DT, mcgovern picked up the DT and was helped by AVT, GVR blocked nobody. becton stonewalled his DE
    E) fant just got beat on a swim move instantly
    E) not an escape but he threw out of a sack incomplete. becton blocked nobody, AVT took on the DT, they dropped the DEs back in coverage, fant and GVR double teamed the other DT. OC blocked nobody. AVT got beat, LBer came on delay unblocked. but the real issue came from a blitzing DB who smoked kroft at TE. 3 rushers out of 4 got through. the DB who was held by kroft but still got the hit, the DT who blew by AVT, and the delay blitzer nobody picked up.
    2) PA, everyone but fant blocked well, the d0line fell for the PA creating a huge pile by the RB of lineman. however fant was beat right away and that DE wasn't fooled and zach couldn't escape. sack and FF but zach jumped on the loose ball
    E) threw out of sack, PA to the right, they blitzed a CB off the left, when zach turned around after the fake the DB was right there. nobodies fault, just a good play call on defense against the call we had on offense.
    E) they rushed 5, o-line did well, but kroft didn't pick up the outside blocker who came free, he went inside to help instead.
    E) they rushed 6, carter missed the inside blitzer so zach couldn't step up, becton got beat outside but would have been fine if zach could step up but he had to fade back due to inside pressure and they met at the QB where he threw out of the sack. this one is on carter
    3) Becotn got beat but held block long enough, pocket was clean, zach should have stepped up or rolled outside but didn't feel the pressure. I'd call it 50% on zach and 50% on becton. wilson was contacted after a good 3.5-4 seconds in the pocket. ball needs to be out or he needs to move at that point

    This is the 1st half, I'll do the 2nd half next but in a separate post as to not make it too long.
     
  9. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    half 2

    E) Threw out of sack way too high. They rushed 5,3 on the left side. AVT blocked the wrong guy leaving mcgovern nobody to block and 1 free rusher. AVT should have picked up the blitzer and mcgovern block his guy.
    E) Threw out of sack off but got a lucky PI. they rushed 6, was picked up well, but fant got beat outside causing the pressure.
    4) They rush 4. picked up well. becton passes LDE to griffin with help from RB ty. 2 inside DTs are both doubled. RDE has fant 1v1. After 2 seconds the DT breaks free of a double team by GVR and mcgovern and the DE breaks free from a double team of griffin and ty. zach breaks out of the sack but eventually gets sacked form another player. this was just piss poor blocking. 2 double teams got beat by a single player each. we called a maz protect, picked it all up well and then just got beat
    E) this was the 1st TD to davis play. They rush 4. fant and becton do well, but GVR gets blown up and mcgovern loses too and the middle pressure forces zach out right. AVT didn't block anyone really.
    5) They rush 6, jets have 6 to block (left a RB in who was ty). RB doesn't see the stunt and helps mcgovern who was instantly beat and the stunt blitzer gets a free shot. I had to watch this a few times and it's tough to call exactly who is at fault but it's a combination of ty and mcgovern. looks like the stunt just confused the 2 of them. mcgovern was late to 1 block becuase he excpected to be blocking someone else and ty had to help him as that guy got right by him and ty's guy got a free rush unblocked.
    E) this was his big play to mims. mcgovern blocked nobody. they rushed 4. AVT was beat instantly, zach had to step up but took a hit as fant (now at LT) man peeled off anticipating the step up but zach delivered a great throw.
    6) they rush 4 using a stunt. initially it looked good. GVR is free, AVT and mcgovern have a double etam on the DT, fant is in good position and moses is as well at RT. mcgovern whiffs on his man on the stunt and AVT/Mcgovern get beat at the same time allowing 2 up the middle. the entire IOL failed on this one but moses and fant looked good


    So overall after watching all the pressure again to focus on it this is what I found

    A large majority of it was bad communication espicially with the IOL on stunts. I expect the pats to use a lot of stunt blitzes after seeing this.
    our IOL was awful overall consonantly getting beat even with double teams
    Fant and becton were ok. not great or bad. fant looked better at LT then he did at RT. moses did great at RT when he came in. Becton is out now 4-6 weeks so it'll be that way for the next 4-6 games.
    Our TEs and RBs are shit at blocking and picking up blitzers. we really need to give wesco a shot. he can't possibly be worse
    AVT missing the offseason with injury obviously hurt a lot. GVR is just bad. mcgovern is like jekyl and hyde
     
  10. dmw

    dmw Well-Known Member

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    I don't know enough about O-line play or who missed blocks to judge what's happening. One thing I think, though, is that the Jets offensive blocking will improve. It might get worse before it gets better, but I have a lot of confidence in this coaching staff and the players.
     
  11. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

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    Why do you have a lot of confidence in either our coaches or players? Our coaches are brand new and our players have an extensive track record of awful play.

    I'm all for being optimistic but that's an unrealistic perspective. I will have confidence in our players and coaches when they give me valid reasons to have confidence in them.
     
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  12. GreenGreek

    GreenGreek Well-Known Member

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    One would hope that with some time, at least the communication issues would get resolved. After being spoiled by the likes of Mawae and Mangold, it's brutal to see interior line play like this.
     
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  13. Losmeister

    Losmeister Well-Known Member

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    passing on Wirfs looking quite bad as of today... like 8/10 bad
     
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  14. SOJAZ

    SOJAZ Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree... and NY Post had this to say:
    It’s clear who gets the most blame for Jets’ brutal weakness (nypost.com)

    The Jets pass protection had to look familiar to Sam Darnold standing on the other sideline on Sunday. It was the same old story for the offensive line. They struggled against blitzes and stunts. They looked out of sync with each other. They gave up way to many free runners to the quarterback. All of it led to Zach Wilson getting sacked six times and hit four more times. If not for Wilson’s quick feet, it would have been nine or 10 sacks.

    There are plenty of places to assign blame for this failure. But it starts with general manager Joe Douglas. When he was hired in June 2019, he set out as his top priority winning at the line of scrimmage. The Jets are still getting pushed around at the line of scrimmage. Douglas has had a long honeymoon here. He came in late in 2019, so he did not get any blame that season. Adam Gase and Sam Darnold took every bullet for 2020. And former GM Mike Maccagnan’s fingerprints were still all over the roster in those years and his mistakes became more and more evident.

    But that is over. Gase is on a golf course. Darnold is a Panther. And the statute of limitations on blaming Maccagnan has run out. Douglas has had two drafts and two free-agent periods to address this roster, in particular the offensive line. No one is saying he should have built a Super Bowl contender in that time, but shouldn’t the offensive line look better? He’s used two first-round picks on the line and signed numerous free agents, including the starting center, right guard and right tackle on Sunday. Simply put, this is Douglas’ handiwork. Right now, it does not look good. It is too soon to judge rookie Alijah Vera-Tucker, but he had a rough debut, allowing six pressures, according to PFF. Last year’s first-round pick Mekhi Becton had a shaky training camp and had a few rough moments Sunday before suffering a knee injury. When it comes to Connor McGovern, Greg Van Roten and George Fant, ask yourself this: Do you want these guys to be starters in 2022? Probably not. That is all you need to know. And Douglas signed Morgan Moses in June, which looked like a good move, but Moses could not even beat out Fant in camp.

    Douglas’ failures on the offensive line were the story on Sunday and figure to be in other games this season. Protecting Wilson needs to be paramount. The Jets looked incapable of it Sunday. That needs to get fixed … quick.

    2. With all the focus on how bad the pass protection was, it got lost a bit on Sunday how bad the Jets were at running the ball. All offseason we have heard about the Shanahan offense that Mike LaFleur would be using and how it is predicated on the run. On Sunday, the Jets averaged just 2.6 yards per rushing play. That is not going to get it done. It is hard to fault the backs. They were getting hit as soon as they touched the ball. According to PFF, the Jets averaged 0.2 yards before contact per rush. The Jets used the committee approach at running back with Ty Johnson, Tevin Coleman and Michael Carter. The longest run of the day was 12 yards by Johnson.

    Next week NE and it maybe just as bad if not worse...with BB and ZERO Blitzes coming.
     
  15. SOJAZ

    SOJAZ Well-Known Member

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    What team were you watching... he was as bad as PS and Fant at RT was terrible.
     
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  16. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    I literally broke it down several times. they weren't great but they were far from awful.. it was the IOL and TEs and RBs and communcations letting up most of the pressure. fant and becton played a much smaller part. becton only let up 1 and it was after he held a block for 3.5-4 seconds. fant did get beat a couple of times though at RT but didn't at LT
     
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  17. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

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    I think you're giving Becton more credit than he's due because the rest of the OL played even worse than he did. Becton played very badly. He gave up a sack and multiple pressures. The best tackles in the league barely give up any pressures or sacks.

    It's fair for fans to be the most upset with Becton because he has the highest expectations given where he was drafted. A bum you sign in FA playing poorly is a whole lot better than a guy taken 11th overall playing poorly.

    The price of the asset is directly related to how good you expect that asset to be and how bad it is if they don't live up to that expectation.
     
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  18. westiedog1

    westiedog1 Well-Known Member

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    It's Douglas' job to get the talent, it's Saleh's job to get it to perform. I don't understand why JD is getting all the heat and Saleh gets none. This is not the Jets of three years ago when the talent level was zilch. There is talent on this team.
     
  19. cval

    cval Well-Known Member

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    Fant was bad Becton had a 2 bad plays. I notice the people with all the hate for Becton have zero comment on the breakdown of pass pro on each play.

    Becton was our best lineman yesterday by a good bit. The hate is unwarranted watch the the tape.

    The o-line was bad Becton really wasn't on pass pro. I have not watched the run plays yet.
     
  20. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    If you look at my breakdown from all the pressures you'll see becton was rarely there. that was my point. I went back today and rewatched the game. on offense I focused on the o-line and zach. on defense I focused on Q and the CBs as much as I could. I originally thought Q was crap but after focusing on him I seen he actually had a good game but was snap limited. You should go back and watch it and decide for yourself like I did
     

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