To answer your questions here: The Jets are in the dark ages with analytics. IF the most innovative teams have 'Mercedes' level analytics departments, the Jets have a 'Schwinn bicycle' level department. It's unfair to blame it on analytics when they are barely dipping their toes in. --- To that point -the guy who left (Burke) wasn't an analytics guy. He was a position coach by trade his whole career, that's why he left to go coach defensive line with the Cardinals. The Jets had him performing a role he is not even trained to do with no experience (like the rest of the staff). This guy Shamash, has at least performed the duties of the job they are hiring him for. So its a step in the right direction, hiring a guy who has some experience with the job, bare minimum level progress for this team, but progress nonetheless
I’m not looking at it form a fans perspective, the team on the field worries about one thing and that’s wins, they don’t care about draft position, ego, The Gang Green Forum or any other BS fans think they care about. Those players have pride in their jobs, you can minimize it all you want, if they could have won 2 or 3 more games that’s what they feel good about.
I get that, but Jets are a bad team because they were devoid of talent and held on to Macagnan way too long, not because they are not up to date on analytical data. Get some talent on this team a good CS and then we can start worrying about who the number cruncher is on the sideline whispering situational football to the HC. A talented football team makes up for any analytical deficiencies a team may have. Remember the Bills and Chiefs playoff game earlier this year? That was not analytical football being played on that field that day, it was two talented teams playing the game.
Actually the Bills are very analytical... I agree this team needs talent but analytics/situational football & talent compliment one another nicely, they are not conflicting concepts
I’m not saying analytics are bad, but you don’t need analytics to tell you the QB needs to make a big time throw in crunch time to win the game or tie the game, you need the QB that can make that play.
I really would like to know exactly how much analytics are used during a game, are we talking about 90%, 50%, or just in Red Zone and 4th down situations?
I suspect very, very little in general. When it comes to the Jets they are routinely making decisions that hurt their 'chance of winning' according to the metrics, so its my personal belief that it is not even a faint consideration on game day for the Jets. Maybe Douglas takes in some info in consideration with personnel decisions in the offseason but that's probably the extent. -- Maybe it will be different with this guy on the field, but the issue is that ya know, he doesn't have a high powered computer on the sideline, so if they don't do the work during the week then he's just operating on his personal decision-making beliefs, and while they might be rooted in analytics, its kinda the opposite of 'data science'
This guy spent 4 years with the Chargers as their game management coordinator... He's seen some shit.
Just guessing here but they probably have a sheet similar to a coordinators play sheet that tells then all the percent change to win if you go for it and get it, go for it and don't get it, punt, etc.
Will you guys want him fired when he tells Saleh to go for it on 4th and 8 on their own 35 yard line in the second quarter down by 6? Guy had Herbert for a QB, so either he comes in and uses his experience to make things better for Jets or is a disaster because he forgets he doesn’t have Herbert as the QB. This is going to be really interesting.
I think some here are over thinking this. At the end of the day the final call is always with the HC. That is not changing. But there is a shit load of information in todays NFL games that needs to be processed depending on opponents past performance and players tendencies for very specific situations, and HCs more than welcome someone at their side that coordinates with the CS and succinctly summarizes the call options factoring analytics, opponents tendencies, time outs, and the like. If you think the HC can keep all of this in his head and still manage all the aspects of the game specially in crunch time you are crazy. This type of communication goes on all the time. Look no further to the KC screwup when they were not aware that had no more time outs. How SD chose to proceed with the information, going on 4th down on their own end of the field with zero hesitation, well that was a different story, and their HC did it with zero hesitation and not much discussion from what I saw. There is a hell of a difference between getting the right info to gain an edge, and making the right decision.
The thing with analytics and only using them sometimes though is it sometimes makes you look like an idiot but should be better for you over the entire season if you follow the odds strictly every single time. Feel really shouldn't come into play. The percentages already account for which team you're facing, etc. As the article in OP states the chargers went for it on third down the 3rd most times in the league and still converted the highest number of them of any team. Everyone remembers the times they failed due to human nature of losses hurting more than wins feeling good. Who's to say the Chargers don't win 7 games instead of 9 though if they'd been more conservative? Maybe they wouldn't have even been in the playoff hunt in the first place if they hadn't followed the numbers so strictly. Totally agree on Ulbrich though.
I hate to say it but JD and Saleh's philosophies of "building through the trenches" fly in the face of analytics. The lines are just not as important as they were 20 years ago when a running game and defense was a legitimate way to compete for a title. You win in the NFL today by stacking weapons on offense and coverage guys on defense to limit the ability of other teams to benefit from doing the same. Passing is just inherently a lot more efficient than running. It makes me very bearish on our future with them as our GM and coach. Douglas is a hell of a lot better GM than our previous ones but that doesn't mean he's a great GM, just that he's better than horrendous. Saleh looks to be a pretty bad coach so far as well. I see the story of their Jets regime ending with a brief period of apparent light at the end of the tunnel followed by inability to take the next step.
I have no problems with analytics, but when Jets hired Saleh they made a point of saying they wanted a HC that was a manager of the whole team, Special Teams, Offense and Defense. They did not want a HC that called plays, so they streamlined Salehs responsibility, he leaves both of his coordinators alone during games, now other than watching the clock, calling a TO, calling for a FG, extra point, two point conversion or going for it on 4th down, what else does he do? Now the Jets hire an in game coordinator, is it really too much for Saleh to figure out what little he is responsible for at this point? I honestly don’t see this as a positive for Saleh, I’m trying not to let the darksider come out of me but I was not impressed with Saleh last year and this is just another sign he may not be the guy. Him not firing Ulbrich is another red flag for me by the way, and I did enjoy watching Chargers games, love Herbert, and I wish good things for him.
Saleh still makes the end decision. Just because Staley goes for it on 4th & 8 doesn't mean Saleh will. The guys job is to provide Saleh with the information he needs to make the right decision; same thing that the coach who left did. We haven't seen Saleh ever go for it in that situation and I wouldn't expect him to now.
Dude, it's got nothing to do with Saleh not making the decision, I'm really not sure where you're getting this idea from. The Jets had a coach doing the SAME exact thing last year. The coach gives Saleh INFORMATION and Saleh does what HE WANTS with it. It ain't that deep man, stop overthinking it.
I dont believe that at all, and I would like to see some basis behind that. Compared to other sports the NFL has just scratched the surface of analytics, but the teams that have used it the most, we've seen them load up on offensive linemen and/or running games. (Cleveland, Baltimore, Indianapolis, Philly, San Fran) the Browns are the most advanced team right now in this field -- In my personal opinion; I look at high school football and college football and I see everyone, I mean everyone, running a spread option with a running QB, giving him very little decisions to be made (just pass if its open or run) and I see monster human beings everywhere on the lines. If I was running a team I would not flip that script, pick a scrawny QB from BYU, run an outdated WCO with a million decisions and hope it falls in place. I would just go out there and let these college players do what they do in the pros, find me the quickest athlete at QB, the biggest linemen, and if that means running it 70% of the time, go for it
I’m aware that the decision sits solely with HC, never denied that, I’m just questioning how much our HC is not responsible for. He doesn’t get involved in defense, offense or special teams, less on his plate, he now doesn’t have to worry about situational data, it’s someone else’s responsibility to get him this information, so what exactly is he responsible for other than making the decision? I get division of labor, I use it in my profession, depending on whatever we have to deal with we don’t speak to more than 1-5 supervisors, it’s a manageable span of control. That still doesn’t take away from the bulk of responsibility being on the number one guy, the blueprint comes from the one boss in charge and we carry it out using division of labor and a manageable span of control of not speaking to more than 1-5 supervisors at any moment. Is Saleh creating the blueprint for the rest of the coaches under his span of control? I’m just thinking out loud.
