And there's the issue. One or both will be available to be had, if we're able to make a move. I just don't trust Maccagnan to do that, as evidenced with the Richardson trade that took 2 years, the Wilkerson and Fitzpatrick contract saga's, and so forth. I also have very little faith in anyone on the offensive staff, aside from maybe Bates, to coach up a young QB and if Bowles is back, I'm assuming his relatively new offense staff will be as well.
To be fair though, Maccagnan had a specific compensation in mind for Richardson and he didn't budge off of it. It turned out working for us as we will now have 2 second round picks, and we got Kearse back which has been pretty good for us. I agree though that Maccagnan's contract and deal ability have been spotty, if not mediocre. He's been fleeced on many free agent contracts. If Bowles is retained, it's almost a foregone conclusion that so will his staff.
The closer we get the more I hope Rosen goes 1 to the Browns and Darnold is in play at 2 to the 9ers. At that point I’d offer up anything it takes to move ahead of the Giants for him. I like Rosen as well but I’m more sure that Darnold will become special than I am Rosen.
The jacuzzi thing makes me laugh & think of the only FQB this team has ever had. Make no mistake this is an extremely critical portion of Rosen’s eval.If he truly is disliked & it’s his own doing,ya gotta question if he’s the right guy for this job. That said I wouldn’t mind a guy w an edge & some swagger who can establish some accountability,grit & stand up to the media.Somebody has to come in here & create a new aura for this team & look Bellicheat right in the face w.o blinking. It aint our HC that’s for sure. Roethisberger isn’t the greatest guy, & I don’t care what Robert “cheating helped 1%” Kraft says..Brady is a snide arrogant entitled prick..we’ll maybe we need a we need a prick of our own.Its just a matter if it’s manageable or if it’s detrimental
I don't see how you arrive at that conclusion. There haven't been that many topflight QB prospects the last 3 years, and most of them Mac had no opportunity to draft. I don't think that Watson, Mahomes or Trubisky were topnotch prospects. The only two were Winston and Mariota, and neither are doing in the NFL what I thought they would by this point in time. Of the previous three, Mahomes has the most talent, but coming from the Texas Tech spread system, I think that most NFL scouts and GMs thought he was a huge risk. For a team like the Jets, that has so many holes and is so bereft of talent, a GM cannot take those kinds of wild risks. If he does and misses, the team is set back even further, he's out of a job, and will never work as a GM again. IMO he has to make safer picks, that will improve the team, fill holes, and upgrade the talent level. He has to show that he can build the team and earn the owner's trust and respect, then he can more safely roll the dice on a risky prospect, and it won't set the team back as much, because he will have already laid a solid foundation. While understandable, I think that both Kurt and you are overreacting out of impatience and frustration. I think if the Jets had been a playoff team more recently and had had more good QBs, neither of you would be thinking the way you are now. The team didn't get this way overnight and it can't be fixed overnight. A new GM can't panic and swing for the fences right out of the gate in an attempt to right or make up for a team's sorry history. He has to be more conservative and cautious, make solid moves, lay a foundation, show that he can do the job, earn trust, then when he has better job security, he can afford to be more reckless and aggressive. In terms of Elway, I think it just goes to show that finding a FQB is a crap shoot, and it's not a science. There are certain characteristics they can look for, and certain things they can try to fix, but they can't know a player's heart, mental makeup, or even if he's reached his peak. They talk about players' ceilings all the time, but imo the reality is they don't have a clue. That's why some QBs are great in college or great in a system that fits their skills perfectly and hides their weaknesses, but when they get to the NFL and are asked to play a different system, they can't do it. If finding QBs were easy, every team would have a good one.
What FA contracts has Mac been fleeced on? We know that teams often have to overpay for FAs, especially if other teams have interest and there's a bidding war. You don't know what other teams may have offered the FAs Mac has signed, or what premium he may have had to pay for living in the very expensive NYC/northern NJ area, not to mention playing for the sorry Jets and Todd Bowles. If you're referring to Fitz, I think that Mac showed what he thought of Fitz' ability. He can't help it if Cousins dramatically drove up QB prices overnight, or if his HC and players on the team worked against him and practically forced him to have to bring Fitz back.
There have been a few instances where players have waited to the last second to sign a deal in order to drive up their price. Case in point Fitzpatrick, we all know what he was, and many on this board, including myself, did not want him back and if he was brought back it shouldn't have been at 12 mil. To think that Macc wanted to sign him to a multi-year deal is bad enough. Fitz bet on himself and subsequently lost that bet after collecting 12 mil for destroying the jets last season. Another instance - Darron Lee. If I'm not mistaken, he waited to sign his rookie deal because Macc wanted offsets, or didn't want to give full compensation - Lee waited, Macc gave in. All of his deals from his inaugural season don't look great because of what happened last season. Granted, you usually do have to overpay for FA's, so I don't disagree with you on that. I think he's improved, specifically this past offseason, just not sure I'm ready to buy all in on his ability to consistently come out of negotiating as a winner.
I'm just simply tired of a passing challenged offensive attack that implodes at the first sign of adversity or elite competition. And it's been that way seemingly forever. Even in their more fruitful offensive seasons the passing attack has never been consistent, dependable or fierce. This has only become more magnified as the league becomes more & more pass/boundary oriented. I've been screaming for a game changing skill player since Darren Mcfadden in 2008. And since the team is simply incapable of scouting or acquiring such a talent & many fans seem to think we're better off going OL around every turn..it just seems like it's never gonna happen. Since 2012 it's been extremely obvious that team desperately needs an infusion of passing related offensive talent...and yet literally Every.single.year defense is the priority. "We'll address the offense next year" .I'm tired of waiting for next year. In my eyes the only thing that breaks the cycle is a high ceiling QB whom they'll be forced to build around. Otherwise it'll be more of the same chasing our tails on paper trying to build a super defense...w. maybe the occassional OL thrown in...since ya know..that evaluation doesn't include anything to do w. skill. The offense has become so barren we have absolutely got to start somewhere. We can't just keep hiding behind "BPA" and taking defensive players. At some point it has to be on the forefront. I know many will say to start w. OL. And the long timers on this site know how much I love OL play. But we've been down that road before...have had some great OL's back when winning the LOS meant something; And yet still we've never managed to field a high octane offense. I'm tired of trying to grit out wins. You're always gonna give up sacks no matter who is protecting You're not always gonna get game changing plays be it from a top notch pass, big time catch or run after the catch.We've literally gone whole seasons without game breaking plays on O beyond creating them for opposing defenses via turnovers. You need a QB to win in this league. WE need to address the offense...this time for real. Not just "good enough we'll win with defense". The only way I see that happening beyond OL is by them being FORCED to take a QB. The stigma has become larger than life for this franchse. It's affected the perceptrion,the brand & obviously the product on the field. They wanna build a super defense? A defense needs to have faith in their QB to provide them points & make plays in the clutch. Rallying behind the likes of Fitzpatrick & Mccown doesn't get guys to rally. Mac is entering his 4th year & 4th draft. He's had time to build his foundation & Bowles has been given plenty of his precious defensive talent. Now is the time to pounce like every other crappy inept franchise eventually does for better or worse when they've finally had enough. Ive had enough of the shitty offensive product & shitty standard of play. ENOUGH of the standffish "Good enough...next year"
I'm going out on a limb here and say Mac never really wanted Fitz back. That one is on Bowles and dynasour Gailey. Mac did not have the option to tell Fitz to shove it like we should have and go in another direction. Both numb nuts were enamoured with Fitz mediocrity.
I think he did or else he wouldn't have traded for him from Houston in the first place. Maccagnan wanted Fitz to be the bridge QB to Hack, unfortunately it didn't work for him and Hack doesn't look to be working out either. Maccagnan will really need to hit on QB in 2018
First of all we'll have to agree to disagree that there haven't been any top level QBs available for the Jets to draft. Mahomes and Watson were/are clearly better than what the Jets currently have. Are they HOF'ers? IDK, but they might be. What I DO know is that they would've brought excitement to this franchise and fan base. And the Jets, as we've seen, is not nearly so "bereft" of talent as everyone thought, and if they had a better QB might actually be realistically in contention. Moreover, as the articles I posted recently show, draft picks beyond the first two rounds aren't really all that valuable, so even if Macc "missed" he wouldn't have been sacrificing the future. How many teams have we witnessed rebuilding in 2-3 years from scratch, while the Jets seem to have been rebuilding since 1970 and haven't won anything? For me, "patience" has become codespeak for "Don't hold us to too high of a standard". After decades of mediocrity they do need to show a sense of urgency and to take some chances. And I disagree that finding a FQB or any elite player is a "crapshoot". Sure there's some luck and guesswork, but the successful franchises do it all the time so there is some "method" to their evaluation process that produces success. Honestly, if I were the owner, I would've personally been interviewing, and picking the brains of personnel from successful teams to try and learn how they consistently succeed. I think this a major failing of Woody, who has sat on his ass and remained clueless. Macc needs to really upgrade the offense this off season starting with the QB. If he doesn't this may well be my last season as a Jets fan.
For all the reasons you listed I want Baker Mayfield... I think that kids gonna be special. I think we can wind up in a spot where we could draft him without moving up too much, if at all.
It's fine that we disagree, and that's a good thing, because we definitely do. Being better than any QB the Jets currently have doesn't make Watson and Mahomes topnotch or top level prospects. Each had/has some glowing positives, but each also has some big drawbacks or at least question marks. You've agreed before that you could understand why Mac didn't draft either Mahomes or Watson because he had just taken Hack in the 2nd round last year. Whether or not Mac really is or was "in love" with Hack's potential, I think he was wary of taking either that high. We'll never know, but perhaps if Adams hadn't been sitting there with his HOF potential at a position of glaring need for the Jets, maybe Mac would have traded down and taken one of them, or maybe even stayed put and taken one of them. When Mac took over the Jets, for the most part, they were bereft of talent, especially on offense. He has been changing that, but the team still is lacking in top level offensive talent and a top level edge rusher, so I think you're wrong. Just because a team of young, hungry players have overachieved with a JAG QB having a career year, doesn't mean the team has a lot more talent than anyone thought. Demario Davis is playing the best football of his career, but he's still not an elite talent. Lee has progressed a pretty fair amount this season and started playing up to his potential. Jenkins and Shell have played pretty well. Adams & Maye have adjusted to the NFL pretty quickly. Their talent and ability was never in doubt. Mac has been adding high character-type players to the team and team players, rather than individuals who only care about themselves and their own stats. IMO that's what accounts for the Jets' better play. Bowles deserves some kudos as well for keeping the team playing hard and showing up prepared each week. I don't think the Jets have been "rebuilding" since 1970. They've changed regimes quite a few times, and "retooled a few times," but basically, they've just kept trying to do things the same way. They've hired incompetent GM after incompetent GM who missed on more picks than on those where they hit, and incompetent rookie HC after incompetent rookie HC who couldn't develop players and who couldn't coach. They've brought in older, expensive vets. They've traded away draft picks trading up too many times. We still don't have a knowledgeable football man running the football operation. We still have a clueless doofus for an owner. All of that has been discussed ad nauseum on this site. Fans can afford to get impatient, GMs can't. Making decisions out of a lack of patience makes things worse. It creates bigger problems. The only way you get high standards is building things the right way and hiring the right people. You don't have high standards when you hire slack "players" coaches who aren't disciplined themselves. You can't have high standards when the GMs miss on more picks than they hit on, and where they trade away picks depleting the team of quality depth. Part of the problem with the Jets is that they've tried a series of "quick fixes" and haven't had the patience to build the team the right way. Have you forgotten about Tanny? He was impatient. He tried to do things too quickly, and as a result got too aggressive, missed on some huge picks, gave away draft picks like people give away their business cards, and left the team with little depth, glaring holes all over the roster, and a bunch of older, expensive players who weren't worth their contracts. When Rex was hired, a rebuild should have happened and they should have built slowly, but no, Rex had to predict a SB victory in his rookie season and Tanny was right there with him. They tried the same thing when Mac was hired in spite of not having that FQB or an elite edge rusher or anything except a topflight DL upon which to try to win. We'll just have to agree to disagree on whether finding a topflight QB is a crap shoot. Successful franchises do NOT do it all the time. You couldn't be more wrong. The Niners were one of the most successful franchises of all time and had two potential HOF QBs back to back and look where they are now. Look at where the might Cowboys are. Look at the Ravens, the Giants and the Steelers. Look at how the Broncos have struggled since Elway retired. The Packers did very well with Favre and Rodgers, but before those two, they were bad for a long time. Look at all the mediocre or worse JAG QBs that are still hanging around the NFL getting work every year because some team or teams are desperate for QBs. If finding QBs was easy, if anybody could have found a FQB in the draft, it should have been Elway, but he has royally sucked at it. Do you really think that other teams are gonna share their secrets to success with Woody? Why should they? If they have some better way of finding QBs, why should they want to help other teams and risk not getting good QBs for themselves? IMO that's incredibly naive. I agree that the offense needs a major upgrade. That is long overdue. The fact that you stated that as a need, clearly demonstrates that the team isn't that talented.
