You can't complain about the FO acquiring players that fit the scheme and then complain that the team is 'forcing it in'. Those two things are diametric opposites. Herm and Bradway 'forced in' the Tampa Cover Who by never acquiring the right personnel for the scheme, choosing to play Frankenstein at the most important position in the scheme, the 3-T. These guys are installing and rebuilding. That's not 'forcing it in'.
Well, it looks like we have decent depth at the NT position at this point. We have what, 4 now? So maybe Hamilton was a Mangini target to help teach technique? I don't know. As far as waiting for him to be released, the Jets were interested in acquiring Dan Klecko, but he is now a Colt. That's what happens when you wait. If you give up a 7th rounder for a guy you specifically desire, regardless of the talent-level, then how can that be a bad thing? Throughout the second day of the draft this year, people were scratching their heads and saying "Who?" after every pick, for every team. Second day picks are like the coffee you get at the diner at 11:48 in the morning. Sure, it still has caffiene, but it doesn't change the fact it's burnt, and tastes like shit.
They 100% ARE forcing it in. The incumbent players are not cut out for the 3-4. The only players on the roster that are 3-4 players were recently brought in. If that's not forcing it in, what is? Why the heck would you switch to a scheme that your players can't play?
They are installing a different scheme. It takes longer than 1 offseason. In order to do so they appear to be starting with a fundamental base and working outward. They are acquiring stopgaps at positions that the personnel does not fit. I should think this stuff would be obvious in contrast to the installation we had 5 years ago. A team that is not rebuilding, a team that is trying to actively stay competitive in the division for the short term, would stick with a scheme that fits the personnel... but that is not what the Jets are doing. To stick with a 4-3 base temporarily would delay the rebuilding effort needlessly, and an overt hybrid defense would delay the development of the rookies and holdovers who are supposed to become fundamentally sound in a short period of time. Our personnel may not fit this defense well right now, but the process is only in the preliminary stages at this point. And we won't really know how they are progressing until there is an actual regular season live snap.
I didn't say he was a guru. I didn't even say he was talented. What he is is someone Mangini already has some knowledge of, and perhaps knows that he at least understands the nuances of the position in the 3-4. Belli axes anyone who passes a certain age. He likes his youth. (Probably because he can still control them.) Besides, Belli has an uncanny knack for bringing in coaches who are far superior to the rest of the league's at each position. The only other two guys in the modern era I can think of that have turned out so many former assistants into head coaches are Parcells and Holmgren. Why would he need to bother having the players do the coaching? On the other hand, Mangini has a lot of green in the assistant roles. Guys like Cox, even Schotty Jr. are relatively inexperienced compared to their peers around the league. In this case, we need players to lead. You know what they say, "Those who can do, those who can't coach."
So we're rebuilding. OK. So how does wasting money and draft picks on guys who are well past their prime help? We're doing this because "they're coaches"? If we're rebuilding, I'm not interested in trading for or signing washed up players. And I also don't see how putting two of our best young players in a scheme they don't fit in makes sense if we're rebuilding.
That's not really true. Troy Brown is 35. McGinest was 34 last season. Ted Washington played for the Pats until almost 36. Those are pretty old guys. So if your point is that BB doesn't keep players who are past 35, point taken. But what coach does like to keep players past 35 (except for kickers and punters)? That's well past the NFL prime years.
They are going to try to fit Vilma and DRob into the scheme, and if they don't then they will get value for them next offseason. I hate the idea of trading either of those guys but we saw when Parcells traded Hugh Douglas to Philly what the priorities for this type of regime are. Who knows? Maybe DRob will be a smashing success at end now that he is hopefully being relieved of his NT duties. Maybe they move Vilma to OLB and he ends up being a solid speedrusher. I agree that it is a pretty odd thing that we traded for Bobby Hamilton, though. I am not completely sold that Mangini's version of the Parcells/Belichick coaching blueprint will even be close to successful, but it appears that they are addressing as many areas as they can right now, and I agree with their method of allowing these high-round picks work their way into or out of a starting job, and not just switching them to a new spot on a whim.
Is there anything you wont complain about? jeez...... The guy was signed for depth and experience. Do we really need to blow this signing out of proportion?
I agree with you for the most part, and what I don't like about the Hamilton acquisition is that we gave up ANYTHING for him. If you want to wait until other teams waive guys with experience in the 3-4 and then sign them for the veteran minimum, fine. I have no problem with that. But trading for existing contracts (which are most assuredly NOT for the vet minimum) and actually giving up value for washed-up players who won't be able to contribute when the rebuilding is over? Sorry, I can't get on board with that. Hamilton's contract: 2006 1335000.00 2007 1500000.00 2008 1500000.00 2009 1500000.00 I know he won't see most of that money because he won't make it until the end of the contract, but that's overpaying in my opinion. And that's aside from the compensation sent to the Raiders for a player who would have been cut anyway. I'm not sure what you mean by that.
Yeah, I've been avoiding dwelling on this subject too much but the more I think about it the more it annoys me. The FO/CS has totally diced the roster without regard to what we gave up for the players cut, the only way we're going to know which players should not have gone, which players should not have been traded for is time, and most of that time filled with unconcluded arguments on this board. Oh well. Thanks for getting me pissed about Bobby H, Yis. :up:
Guys I'll repeat a point I made earlier. We waited to see if we could pick up Klecko, who Mangini was definitely interested in acquiring. Look what happened? They missed the boat, and now Klecko is a member of a team that we used to hate in our division. What did we give up for Hamilton? I thought it was a 7th rounder. If so, look at the seventh rounder we picked up this year. Titus. He is not on the team, and never attended a regular season game. 7th rounders are practice squad players, at best. Sacrificing the pick, and possibly getting someone in who can improve DRob's technique should not be considered a bad move.
How do you know Mangini was interested in acquiring Klecko? Just because they were on the Pats together? Pats fans seem to think the two of them didn't like each other much last year.
The big question isn't whether the players are the prototype for a new system, it's what will make the team successful. Vilma isn't your typical 3-4 ILB but I have to believe that even this team in a 3-4 would be better than in a 4-3. And for all the noise it gets from the media, it's not that huge of a difference. Vilma would be taking on lineman anyway, even in a 3-4. Remember a couple years ago when we didn't have a a big DT before Ferguson emerged and it was still a problem.
Whoa whoa whoa. Worst case scenario, the 7th rounder will usually make the practice squad. Best case, you get a servicable backup or even a starter, for very cheap. Klecko was meaningless. If the Jets really wanted Klecko, he would've been a Jet.
Playing your players out of position will not make the team more successful. These are guys who are cut out for and have always played in the 4-3, for the most part. You have to work with the personnel you have.
It was in yesterday's Post. (I know, me reading the Post??? Don't worry, I was at my mother's house, and I was bored, so I read the sports section.) It didn't say that he was determined to bring him in or anything, but that he did have serious interest in Klecko. That wasn't really the point I was trying to make though. It wasn't any particular player I was trying to focus on. I was just trying to make the point that by playing the waver wire, you stand a good chance of losing out on a player you really want. Like I said, for a seventh round pick, to get the guy you want, rather than chance him going elsewhere on the wire, why not? Yisman, how many seventh rounders are starting, or even the first backup on any team? Not many, if any. Of course, you will always be able to find examples of late round gold, but chances are, it's a dead pick, and a future PS player, at best, a starter on ST.
