Jaguars Promote John Idzik

Discussion in 'National Football League' started by LongIslandBlitz, May 29, 2015.

  1. BacktoQueens

    BacktoQueens Well-Known Member

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    He cut the contracts that were obvious.
    players no longer warranting their salary, who had very little dead money at the time of their release.
    Sanchez, Tebow, Holmes, Bart Scott, Pouha, Eric Smith, Jason Smith, etc...

    Then he let a lot of other players walk in FA, in lieu of re-signing them.
    Laron Landry, Cro, Austin Howard, Slauson, Shonn Greene, Mike Devito, etc..

    that's how he cleared cap space......by clearing half the roster.
    which of those moves took cap expertise?
    it's akin to Mac releasing Harvin and Chris Johnson, while letting Vick walk. obvious and easy way to clear up some space.

    the hard part is restocking the talent within the confines of the salary cap limit, while minimizing the risk of future dead money.
    Idzik never really displayed that savvy, despite being a smart guy with a strong comprehension of contracts and the cap.
    seemed like he was in over his head, and was so risk adverse, that he was afraid to pull the trigger on anything. he also didn't have a good feel for the FA market rates.
    the end result was cap space, but extremely bare cupboards.
    doing nothing is not an acceptable, nor savvy, approach as a GM.
     
  2. pclfan

    pclfan Well-Known Member

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    And all of those above contracts were simple, easy and anybody could do it. You really don't know anything about cap management. I looked and didn't see one legit or even non legit article about Idzik saying his clearing of the cap space was a no-brainer. It was pretty complicated and he brought a 20 million overage to a surplus. Now if you don't like him for not spending it (for Rex) that's your opinion. But to say anyone could have done it (even the fans) is idiotic.
     
  3. BacktoQueens

    BacktoQueens Well-Known Member

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    in terms of the bolded part, i'm also happy both Idzik and Rex landed jobs again.
    also agree their dynamic together proved unsuccessful with the Jets, and wish them luck at their next stops (except when against the Jets).

    but i still think you are making Idzik out to be the victim, with Woody somehow making all the decisions.
    what evidence is there of that conspiracy?
    was Woody making the draft selections, telling Idzik who he could or could not sign in FA, what scouts and FO personnel he could bring in, what type of scouting program he could run?
    those were Idzik decisions. Woody is not that smart, and not nearly that involved imo..

    i don't agree that there was a circus environment either.
    there was no finger pointing. The coaches and FO were saying all the right things (even if they didn't mean it), and publicly supporting each other. There were no major on or off field incidents involving the players. they really weren't even interesting, let alone a circus.
    It was just a poor football team.

    dysfunction, and a poor dynamic......that i do agree with.
    Idzik played a huge part in that dysfunction tho.
     
  4. BacktoQueens

    BacktoQueens Well-Known Member

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    creating contracts that make sense for the team, the cap in the long and short term, and the players themselves can be quite complicated.
    restructuring contracts to be more cap friendly can also be quite complicated.
    but releasing players whose contracts already have terms defined is not very complicated, especially where dead money is limited.

    what don't you understand? what was so complex about releasing and not signing those players?
    why are you looking online for quotes from Idzik explaining things were no-brainers? when players are losing jobs, he's not going to insult them by calling it an easy decision.

    you may want to hold off on telling others 'they really don't know anything about cap management', when you don't seem to have any basic understanding yourself.....or even common sense it would appear.
     
  5. pclfan

    pclfan Well-Known Member

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    Again your knowledge of the cap is Wikipedia. If you worked for the Jets you'd be going out and getting pizzas not making important decisions.
     
  6. Red Menace

    Red Menace Well-Known Member

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    BTQ, I never absolved him from any blame, he shared a large part of the blame, i however don't believe for one moment that he was the ONLY one at fault.

    I believe that the atmosphere with that CS and that FO was toxic and no GM would have been successful.

    Mac is good at his job, I also believe that allowing him to get rid of Bauer and Bradway was key for the FO. The fact that Mac came in and also had a new HC to work with, that had a similar personality to his, allowed for a smooth transition with this FO.

    I agree with you that Circus may be to string of a classification, I used that because all of the newspaper articles that were written and frankly were embarrassing to read.
     
  7. BacktoQueens

    BacktoQueens Well-Known Member

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    lol says the guy with no point to make..

    i love pizza and the Jets tho, so i'm still interested in that job!
     
  8. pclfan

    pclfan Well-Known Member

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    I'd be getting pizzas too or even worse. Probably refilling the toilet paper. But I know nothing about the cap and either do you. These guys are trained professionals and we're just fans.
     
  9. BacktoQueens

    BacktoQueens Well-Known Member

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    so is your only point that no one knows anything about the cap....not even at a common sense level?

    or are you trying to exclaim that Idzik did a good job somehow?
     
  10. BacktoQueens

    BacktoQueens Well-Known Member

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    yeah the 'circus' thing is so media contrived, that it has become a pet peeve of mine.
    there was really nothing to see last season.

    you said it again though.......Mac was 'allowed' to get rid of Bauer and Bradway..
    Idzik wasn't allowed to?
    that seems you are suggesting that Woody was pulling all the strings, which i do not believe was the case.
    Idzik wasn't hamstrung by Woody....he just didn't do much of anything.

    while i agree that the atmosphere became toxic, i don't believe it had to be that way, and i don't believe any GM would have failed in that situation.
    if Idzik fielded a remotely competitive roster, and we still went only 4 or 5 wins, he'd still have a job (although Rex wouldn't).
    hell if he provided a secondary, he'd probably still have a job.
     
    #110 BacktoQueens, Jun 2, 2015
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2015
  11. pclfan

    pclfan Well-Known Member

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    Our knowledge of the cap is strictly Wikipedia and to say that anybody could have cleared that cap space is ridiculous. You can have your opinion but to point blank say you could have cleared over 20 mil in cap space is silly. It's a lot more complicated than that. As for Idzik. He didn't do a good job, in many areas he was ok to fair but he deserved a 3rd year. His drafts could work out. He still gets an Incomplete.
     
  12. Red Menace

    Red Menace Well-Known Member

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    I did say it again because it was only After Wolf and Casserly got involved and Mac was hired that Bradway and Bauer were fired, Mac also required additional increase in the budget for the player scouting department.

    I believe that if Casserly and Wolf were not involved, it would have been the same thing, as when Idzik was hired.

    A carousel of GM candidates that were probably not qualified for the job would be interviewed by Woody, Glatt and Rex, because Rex would still be the HC and Bradway and Bauer would have their jobs.

    In 2 years the bill boards would be going up asking for heads to roll.

    JMO
     
  13. JetBlue

    JetBlue Well-Known Member

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    No, we do know what was on it.
    http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/10648868/mark-sanchez-released-new-york-jets

    Idzik cleared 8.3 million by cutting him. Idzik didn't create that option, Tanny did because he created the contract. Idzik simply decided a $4 million cap hit was better than a $13 million cap hit.

    This is all such basic stuff that you aren't ignorant for not knowing it you have to be a outright fucking moron for not knowing it and trying to tell other people who do that they don't just because this 1+1=2 scenario is too complicated for you.
     
  14. pclfan

    pclfan Well-Known Member

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    Ok. I get your gist. I had my say. You don't know anything about Sanchez's contract. You're giving us a pathetic Wikipedia explanation.
     
  15. JetBlue

    JetBlue Well-Known Member

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    No, you are too stupid to understand the terms of Sanchez's contract when it is spelled out for you. Arguing that there must be more to it but you don't know what that more is just continues to make you a fool, something this board has known about you long before this discussion.
     
  16. pclfan

    pclfan Well-Known Member

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    I don't have the contract do you. And even if I did I wouldn't adequately be able to interpret it. They have to run these things by lawyers. Of course there's more to it than a Sportac breakdown of his contract.
     
  17. JetBlue

    JetBlue Well-Known Member

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    Take responsibility for your own mental limitations. The terms of Sanchez's contract were reported factually and can be the basis for a realistic discussion of such. Knowing every single word of the contract isnt required and only an imbecile would continue to argue from that position.
     
  18. pclfan

    pclfan Well-Known Member

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    Cap specialists look at contracts not internet breakdowns and summaries. Plus there are communications and negotiations with the player's agent in terms of deciding whether to release a player or not. You have zero knowledge on any of this. I'm a moron for even talking to you.
     
  19. BacktoQueens

    BacktoQueens Well-Known Member

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    lol you think Idzik was talking to the agents of Holmes and Sanchez, negotiating the terms of their release?
    c'mon you cannot be that dense. they had no say in the matter.

    it's really not that complicated to release a player.
    signing a player, creating a legal contract, and negotiating all the fine points and cap ramifications......i'd agree that is a more complex process involving multiple lawyers and agents. but a release is very one sided.
     
  20. BacktoQueens

    BacktoQueens Well-Known Member

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    but that doesn't mean Idzik was not allowed to make those changes.
    He could have fired those guys after the 2013 draft, or at least reassigned them while putting new guys in those key positions.
    He also could have reshaped the scouting dept, or requested a higher budget to put an emphasis on organizational scouting.
    I don't think he had much of a vision or an operational MO, which was in part, why he was a poor GM.
    i just can't get behind the notion that Woody was somehow blocking all this innovational change, while not 'allowing' Idzik to do any aspects of his job.

    i will agree that hiring Casserly and Wolf was the right approach this season though.
    Woody is not strong enough to make the right decision on his own, and i wanted football people involved, not corporate consultants or Glass.
    Rex was fired before those guys even came on, so he was a non issue with the go forward plan tho.

    I'll also note, that Mac didn't hire Bowles, and i don't believe Mac can fire Bowles.
    both report to Woody, like Rex and Idzik did, and I'm totally fine with that. they have a division of responsibilities, which their individual performances can be measured by.
    the difference to me is a more qualified GM hired, fresh blood on the coaching staff, and the improved working relationship between the GM and HC.
     
    Red Menace likes this.

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