I'm aware of Gilbert's physical gifts, and his sats (compiled against some seriously subpar competition btw) but that alone doesn't make him a first round pick, and irregardless of what one editor at rotoworld says, I haven't seen anyone else projecting him that high, Scott Wright has him at 59, McShay at 55, kiper at 44, jeremy green has him going late 2nd (no mock just said the panthers might take him at 59), Gosselin has him out of the first round (he hasn't done a multi-round yet).Judge has him out of the first round, scout.com has him out of the 1st, prisco has him out of the first, mayock has him as a 2nd or 3rd rounder. Now not to say these guys' word is gospel, nor am I saying that Gilbert might not end up productive, but the #17 is a very attractive pick in terms of talent level to salary ratio, so it makes no sense to reach dramatically for gilbert. If you really think he's going to go before your 2nd round pick maybe you trade down to the late 20's or so and reach there, but to take him at 17 is just a terrible business decision.
Just curious, how did you feel about Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie last season? Gilbert won't make it out of the first round and as for the WAC being "sub-par" you haven't watched much of Boise State and Fresno State - no one wants to play these teams. Louisiana Tech and Nevada are also on the rise. Mel Kiper Jr. - ...wishes he had a real job Todd McShay - ...wishes he was Mel Kiper Jr. Scott Wright - ...god awful
With all due respect to Jabba, he introduced Gilbert to our site back in Jan. The Hype for Gilbert went nuts when the jumping out of a swimming pool video was posted on Youtube. Jabba's keen eye for talent proved that Gilbert was moving up the charts for the right reasons. You need to do some more reseach on Gilbert, he was a force in the WAC. Let me say, I really like Gilbert, but do believe drafting him at #17 is a reach. I really believe, knowing Jabba, he even feels Gilbert is overvalued at #17. If the Jets could trade down to the mid 20s and pick up another 3 rd round pick and draft Gilbert in Rd 1.....would be the perfect scenario. IMO, Gilbert will be drafted in late round 1 or very early rd 2.
Trading down and acquiring picks in next years draft would be IDEAL. I'm already excited for next year, as bad as that is..
Next Year's draft will be the best draft in 10+ years............let's hope the Jets don't do something stupid and trade next year's picks. We already may have to give up a 2010 pick for Lito.....depending on playing time. I'm all for trading down a couple of times and picking up 2010 picks. Some team, like New England, will have a plan to get as many 2010 picks as possible.
I liked the mock. I see that you are an OL guy based on the late picks. I think it is more likely that we add more DL and Defense in the two spots you drafted lineman...The head coach wants defensive depth there is big money in the OL, the FO is high on Robert Turner, and there are a couple of projects already on the team
Gilbert is going to be good. I really believe that, but, I think he is being hyped up in a crazy way right now. It is almost insane. I don't think he gets picked until the early second, and I'm not even certain of that. I'm especially against this pick due to the obvious needs on the offensive side of the ball. We have plenty of holes on Offense, so we can still pick BPA.
Please the WAC is not a good conference at all in terms of preparing a D-lineman to play on the NFL level. Fresno and BOise are decent teams, but even they aren't exactly pumping out Pro prospects on the offensive side particularly. Clady, MAnkins and saetele were pretty much it over a 3 year span. I think Gilbert could be very good in the NFL, though I think he's really better suited to be a DT in a 4-3 than playing in the 3-4. THe real concern I have is that every time I see him, even on his good plays he has no technique at all, he either overpowers smaller guys or out-quicks slow ones, which is fine against a bunch of guards and centers in the WAC, (the vast majority of whom couldn't make a major conference team never mind play in the NFL.) but in the NFL he's not going to overpower anyone, nor is he likely to penetrate with pure speed, especially as a 3-4 end. HE's going to need a ton of work in the 3-4, and combining that with his poor stamina, and the fact that it would be a huge reach I think it would be ridiculous to take him at 17. IF you really think he's the BPA at 17 you HAVE to trade down, that's my point, not whether he can be good, but that he's a terrible value there. A good example is the Patriots last year, MAyo was projected in the 12-18 range the PAtriots liked him better than anyone else available so they moved back, Gilbert is not going in the top 20, so why not trade back is my point. As to Cromartie I liked him alot,he did play inferior competition, but he showed great technique to go with his physical skills. he had no positional questions, and more importantly he dominated the senior bowl and according to coaches the senior bowl practices. GIlbert skipped the Senior bowl so his only games against big conference players were nebraska and Stanford. He was decent against stanford without really impacting the game much and nonexistent against nebraska.
Picking Gilbert at 17th would be just as bad as taking freeman. He jumped out of a pool i get it. Gilbert is a guy that will probably sneak into the back of the 1st round on potential, but potential only means that you haven't done shit yet, and at 17 its a terrible reach, almost as bad as Heyward-Bey would be. I much rather see Moreno, Pettigrew, Jenkings, even an USC linebacker.
I Like getting Gilbert,Greene and Barden but i rather go after a receiver or QB (If Sanchez is there or we trade up) but Greene at #2 is a great pick and Barden is a good receiver who's stock is going to only rise.
A linebacker would be stupid. If the Jets are convinced Gilbert is the real deal, I can live with him, but I hope we can trade back first. Potential doesn't simply mean he hasn't done shit yet, he dominated the WAC this year. If you want to call him a one year wonder, fine, but ie was a good time to have his one year, and he has all the athletic ability to be a great player. If a guy has first round upside, and even Scott Wright thinks he does, he fills a need, and the Jets think they can coax it out of him, I have no problem picking him.
I love your mock MC. Totally in favor of reaching for Gilbert. Personally, if no running back is taken at our pick at 17 and Jeremy Maclin is off the board, I'd like to trade down to the late 20's or the 30's. I don't think it's very likely that Knowshon, Wells and Brown (my big three) are all gone in between those picks. Then we get our running back of the future, and use the additional pick(s) to trade back up in the second and secure Gilbert. But I am not against reaching at 17 by any means. If there is one thing I really like about Andy Reid and the Eagles, it's that they always, ALWAYS re-stock the trenches on the first day of the draft. That's why they're 92-51 over the last 9 seasons, with 7 playoff appearances. It's a solid philosophy. I see the merit in "Draft for Need" and "BPA," but "Fill the Fucking Trenches" works.
I'm glad you're not the Jet's GM. Reaching for players is one of the biggest errors in the drafting process. If you have an opportunity to trade down and pick up an extra selection....why wouldn't you?
I don't think it's a particularly big error. Wouldn't we have been well-served last year by "reaching" with the 6th pick and drafting Jerod Mayo or Jonathan Stewart instead of taking the appropriately valued Vernon Gholston? Obviously, the desired strategy would be to trade down to the last possible position you could still draft the player you want, but that requires a tremendous amount of luck, insight and reliable trading partners. Wasn't Chris Johnson a bit of a reach for the Titans last year? Donnie Avery was the first wide receiver off the board last year as the Rams reached past the consensus best receivers, Devin Thomas, Limas Sweed, and co. And what about the year before? Levi Brown, major reach, but the Cards needed a tackle, so they drafted a tackle. They did pretty well with that pick, I think. Sidney Rice and Dwayne Jarrett were also projected to go before Anthony Gonzalez, but that pick has paid off. And 2006? How could you reach past Matt Leinart, Vince Young and Reggie Bush to draft a workout warrior? Sure, you have your John McCargo's and your Justin Harrell's, but that has a lot more to do with the Packers and the Bills being shitty drafters than with the flaws of reaching, as a philosophy.
No if they were down on gholston and ellis they would have been well served to trade down. The point is reaching is stupid outside the top 5 because there is always someone looking to move up, it could have been NO who moved up to 7, or the JAgs who moved up to 8. Taking a guy too early should only happen in the top 5 where it is harder to trade out, to take a guy drastically before his generally agreed value is like throwing away a free 3rd rounder, maybe more
You're contradicting yourself here - you can't knock Jarron Gilbert anymore. DRC played against much, much worse competition than Gilbert. What kind of positional questions does Jarron Gilbert have? He's a defensive lineman that's going to play...defensive line...in the pros. He played a ton of snaps inside and outside at SJSU. The guy was double and triple teamed all season long and he still had a great season... You can call him a workout warrior all you want - but the production is there. No one is questioning his athleticism and most importantly no one is questioning his motor. Gilbert dominated in the East-West Shrine game - he pulled out of the Senior Bowl, but only because he wanted to focus on preparing himself for the combine...smart move. JG also had one of the best performances at the combine. As for the WAC not putting defensive talent into the pros: Ikaika Alama-Francis, Marcus McCauley, Richard Marshall, Gerald Alexander, James Sanders, Travis LaBoy, Isaac Sopoaga, Pisa Tinoisamoa, Tramon Williams, Dwight Lowery, and Orlando Scandrick all started games in the NFL this season...
