INTERESTING - Inside look at Jets GM Joe Douglas’ new draft grading system

Discussion in 'Draft' started by LF911SC, Apr 7, 2020.

  1. twown

    twown Well-Known Member

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    I just crunched the numbers, and the average grade for TGG posters seems to lie somewhere between a 5.9 M and a 6.4 C.
     
  2. BroadwaySam

    BroadwaySam Well-Known Member

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    Honestly Landry has gotten worse since leaving the Dolphins but I think that's because the Browns have been even more of a trainwreck somehow than the Gase-era Dolphins. I think he's actually being used better though. He's not relegated to the LOS and trying to make things happen with the ball in his hands.

    https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/jarvis-landry/LAN163029

    Just scroll down that list. You can visually see the difference in the way he was used by Gase and the way he was used by Kitchens. And that's what "conservative" means when I'm saying Gase's offense is conservative. If it were bad playcalling that were making the offense flop, you wouldn't see a speedster's routes look the way they did under Gase. It's bad play design.

    Edit: And when you see it like that, that's why I worry about whatever WR we end up with. Gase doesn't know how to use anything other than a slot receiver and a tight end. Could you imagine drafting Lamb and he ends up running 2017 Landry routes?

    Edit 2: Oh man I wish I never saw this site. For the "Gase used Bell perfectly fine as a receiver" crowd... go ahead and scroll backwards through this https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/charts/player/le'veon-bell/BEL474300/season
     
    #42 BroadwaySam, Apr 7, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2020
  3. MaximusD163

    MaximusD163 Well-Known Member

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    That’s like saying why would I buy a house that my wife likes if we might get divorced in a couple years.

    If you don’t work as a team, you’re setting yourself up for failure from the get go. That is mediocrity by nature.
     
  4. Same DarnOld Jets

    Same DarnOld Jets Well-Known Member

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    i actually agree with most of your points about gase

    but hear me out, this is a radical idea ... you don’t have to respond to every tangentially related gase post ... you’ve made these same points dozens of times

    when it comes to gase you’re a broken record ala @championjets69 ... but less endearing
     
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  5. BroadwaySam

    BroadwaySam Well-Known Member

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    I made a point about something that was first raised in an article published [checks watch]... 10 hours ago. Not sure I've talked about Douglas potentially overriding Gase's preference dozens of times.

    I get it. But at the same time for as long as people want to pretend Gase isn't awful I'm going to keep providing the proof that he is.
     
  6. dmw

    dmw Well-Known Member

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    I like it!
     
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  7. LAJet

    LAJet Well-Known Member

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    Spot on, particularly the bold. Every GOOD GM approaches the draft pretty much that way. You first screen players that fit the culture and the long term system and identity of the team as set forth by the GM. His blueprint as you call it. Second you further filter for the best fit within the CS preferences, and IMO 100% rightfully so, as the whole purpose is to give them the best chance to improve the team performance. Under Mac the second part never took hold and the first part was absent of a winning blueprint.
    I know you don’t have faith in Gase and respect that, I’m on the fence myself but still hopeful. I give you major kudos however, for keeping this thread on track, on the subject of what JD is doing, and not hike-jack it into yet another whining session about Gase past track record like a few love to do.
    The article highlights the wonderful approach our new GM is taking for once. It has zero to do about Gase’s past, and everything to do about the team’s ability to become a winner with the players JD selects.
    IF NOT THE NEXT HC WILL BE THE ONE JD PICKS TO FIT HIS ESTABLISHED BLUEPRINT.
     
  8. Mogriffjr

    Mogriffjr Well-Known Member

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    Surely we know why he was ordered to throw too many short passes...or was forced to...
     
  9. Zach

    Zach Well-Known Member

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    That is - assuming somehow Douglas's evaluation board aligns with every GM's evaluation board, in such a way that every prospect in that 150 pool gets drafted in every round. I don't think that's going to be a problem.
     
  10. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I love Douglas' approach. I got excited just reading it, even if Manish wrote it.

    I think he is going to be a huge success. Following are my reasons why.

    1) I like the Browns' System for grading players, focusing on specific value and role in the team's system. Grades are based on how a prospect fits into a specific system rather than what round he projects to and how he stacks up vs other players at his position. This should end the drafting of a player simply because he's the BPA at his position on some objective scale regardless of scheme fit;

    2) Douglas has mastered this system, yet he listens to others, is still learning;

    3) He sounds like a good teacher and leader, is patient, and thorough, listens to others, he's flexible, it isn't his way or the highway, he doesn't want "Yes" men, he welcomes challenges to his opinions if they can be backed up clearly;

    4) He is supposedly a really good evaluator;

    5) He worked with the CS to get their input on the traits and characteristics each wants in the players he works with, that should lead to better results, and a happier, more positive working environment, where they feel respected and their opinion matters;

    6) Scouts should have a better understanding of what the CS wants and how a player fits, what his role will be;

    7) He believes in himself, he listens to others and genuinely considers what they have to say, but the final say is his. He won't be cowed by Gase or Williams or what they think about specific players. This to me says that he won't "fall in love" with players and make overly aggressive trade ups to get a specific player. He'll look for players that have the same traits and abilities, but who will have better value.;
     
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  11. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    The bold was Manish's assumption. It's not clear that's what Douglas said. He just said it was streamlined and wouldn't be 300-350 players like Mac. Based on what else I've read and heard about Douglas, it just doesn't make sense that Douglas would only have 150 players on his draft board. That's not even 5 complete rounds.
     
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  12. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I have to believe that Douglas won't be like previous GMs and when a HC is fired, one or both systems will be changed as a result. Unless he just doesn't believe in Gase's or Williams' system, I think he will look to hire a HC that will keep the same systems in place so the roster doesn't have to be turned over. If Gase is fired following the upcoming season, then Douglas might at that point determine which systems he wants to build the team to play since they will still be in the building process. Once the team is built however, I don't think he will change schemes willy, nilly. He won't hire a HC candidate who only will coach or who only can coach one system. I think he'll hire a HC that will pick a system that fits the team's talent or adapt his scheme to fit the team's talent. I don't think Douglas will be big on trying to force square pegs into round holes.
     
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  13. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    That's the old Cleveland Browns model ala Ozzie Newsome, NOT the new Cleveland Browns Model. Remember that the Ravens WERE the Cleveland Browns.
     
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  14. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but I think you misunderstood or misread what the article said, my friend. Following are the specific points.

     
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  15. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    ROFLOL! :D
     
  16. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    I don't think so. Read the other comments, like:

    "The new model is much more targeted to your team’s makeup. Douglas has a clear sense of what he’s looking for..."

    "There’s an art to managing egos that not everyone can master. Although Douglas isn’t going to force players on Adam Gase or Gregg Williams, he’s not ceding control of the most important part of his job.

    Douglas was entrusted to build the roster. His task is to create a path that makes the most sense for sustainable success."

    "When Gase describes specific attributes that he’s looking for in a wide receiver, for example, Douglas will deliver a player that fits those parameters even if it might not necessarily be the specific guy that Gase wants.

    “You want a player who can do A, B and C?” Douglas might say to Gase. “Well, here’s a guy who can do all those things.”

    Although Douglas’ draft board is continually evolving, the coaches’ evaluations will not prompt a significant move up or down the board."


    While he's going to try and fit players to the schemes that Gase and Williams use, he retains the final say and will choose players that fit HIS blueprint.
     
  17. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    It's not a big deal, maybe I'm wrong, or maybe it's semantics, but the way I took it is that Douglas is looking for players who love football, will put the team first, who will work hard and play hard, are strong, smart, tough, athletic, preferably fast/quick, and who have good character. Those are general player traits and attributes, not necessarily position-specific. Gase and the CS gave Douglas a breakdown by position of the traits/characteristics, skills that they're looking for in a specific position, and maybe even a specific player that he (Gase) wants.

    IMO it means that Douglas may not take a player that Gase wants if Douglas doesn't think he's good value, if he's going to have to trade up to get him, or doesn't have the physical/mental traits and character that Douglas is looking for. It does say that he will give Gase a player with the same skills/traits/attributes that Gase identified in what he specifically wants from a player at that position. For instance, Gase might have fallen in love with a WR that maybe doesn't have the best work ethic, or doesn't love football and won't be committed to becoming the best he can be, but has the YAC ability, hands and speed/quickness that Gase wants. Douglas isn't going to draft that player because he doesn't fit the traits that Douglas is looking for, but he is going to draft another WR who has the same skill/athletic traits/technique (YAC ability, hands, and speed/quickness) that Gase identified, but who also has the physical/mental/character traits that Douglas is looking for.

    At any rate, we'll see soon, and we agree that it's going to work well.
     
    #57 NCJetsfan, Apr 7, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2020
  18. ColoradoContrails

    ColoradoContrails Well-Known Member

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    I think we're saying basically the same thing, but I think Douglas has an idea of the TYPE of player - character, football IQ, heart, does he fit the overall ideal of a NY Jets player - like the Steelers draft certain players that are "Steelers". He then takes the "grocery list" from Gase and Williams and looks for those players within the universe of players that fit his "NY Jets Player" mold.

    In contrast, look at how Rex and Tanny did things. Rex was the driver of which players he wanted, but he didn't have a complete understanding of both sides of the ball. Even so, he overruled Tanny on players with the exception of staying within the salary cap/budget. Having a knowledgeable GM be able to perform this role is much better, and I think that's what we have in Douglas. We'll see.
     
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  19. LF911SC

    LF911SC Well-Known Member

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    So your saying in his 3 seasons in Miami Tannehill wasn't injured in 2 of those seasons?
    Darnold wasn't either hurt or playing sick for a major part of 2019? Seimien wasn't injured too?
    In 2015 that what he got out of Cutler wasn't good coaching?

    Sometimes you have to believe what your eyes see on the field, not the QB you think is out there, the players you think are out there.

    And bad luck streaks do happen
     
    #59 LF911SC, Apr 7, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2020
  20. LF911SC

    LF911SC Well-Known Member

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    All GMs draft players that fit a scheme their HC runs.
    Belichick favors the 3-4 D, his early GMs drafted that way. Look no further than AZ over the past 2 years. They drafted Rosen high, he fit. HC out, whiz kid in and off goes a high pick QB for an even higher pick QB who better fits the new scheme.

    Plus its not that big a deal to switch off within an offseason from different schemes.

    But continuity and stability are a huge factor in building long term success. NE, Pitt, Seattle and NO. All 4 are great examples.
     
    #60 LF911SC, Apr 7, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2020
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