Talk about taking things out of context. I compaired Sack numbers only, not overall effectiveness. Nice try though.
I think we'll get better 3-4 DL players. I'm a little concerned about Ellis and Coleman, but I see our younger guys getting alot more snaps. Plus, the 3-4 talent coming through starting next year is ridiculous. The guys we have now will do, because our LB corps can be damn good.
True but everyone knows if Seymour and Warren were in 4-3 schemes they'd both have 10+ sacks yearly. Anyway I can tell you guys don't really think of our DE's as great players. So how are we going to have a top 5 or even top 10 D with players that are too small and only 2 players in the secondary that are even on the average level? (even tho they are probowl type)
Our DEs are average. Ellis is a little undersized and gets blown off the line from time to time, but he?s solid. Coleman has good size and played really good last year. He did a great job holding his ground and keeping his shoulders square. That?s why he made a lot of tackles. He also has a geat motor. Also a solid player. As for Sacks. When 34 DEs sack the QB, it?s mostely when a QB steps up into the pocket and gets flushed right into the DE?s arms. But to force the QB to step up, you need pressure from the edge. I think if Coleman gets a good edgerusher next to him, he?ll get his sacks (he had 5 sacks as a backup, when DWare rushed next to him). Ellis showed he still can rush the passer from time to time, but he also disapeared in some games, more pressure off the edge will definitly also help his game. Aside from our starters, we got some good youngsters who are all capeable of having a surprisingly good season, especially Mosely, who reminds me a lot of Ty Warren (imo the best 34 DE right now). So we can just sit back and see how all this pans out. If none of the young players shows up, we might draft someone the next two years, or if a great talent falls into our lap. But as for now, we are fine, not great, but just fine. They would both be DTs in the 43 and would consider a 5 sack season a good year.
I think our DE's will be fine. Ellis is a bit underrated by some because he's not a sack machine, but thats not really his job at this point. One other thing to consider is that just because we've got the missing link DT (hopefully) there's no guarantee that Mangini will suddenly run a full time 3-4. I expect to see both Gholston and Pace start from the down position on occasion to give different looks to opposing offenses.
I don't get where this "Ellis is better in a 4-3" crap comes from. He was drafted to be a 3-4 End. He is built to be one. Yeah, if he had just 10 more pounds on him it would help a lot. The guy is a solid player and always comes up big in clutch situations. I would dare to say that half of his sacks have come during the opposing team's 2 minute drill at the end of the game. Kenyon Coleman on the other hand, is a one-sided anomaly. He is great against the run, holding his ground and never being pushed back, and when the play goes away from him, he swims and pursues like no other, resulting in him getting the highest tackle total for a defensive lineman in the league last year. What reason do we have to get down on him, then? His pass rushing. It leaves more than just a little to be desired. Despite all of his strength in defending the running game, he can't seem to push his man back when pass rushing. Due to our running of a 3-4, is this a big problem? Not really, so long as you have good pass rushers on the edge. But when you have an ILB/4-3 OLB like Hobson and a slacking of Bryan Thomas at your OLB spots, they need your DEs' pass rushing skills to be at the very least respectable. While not expected to get sacks, they should at least be able to push their man back, maybe even get the running back to think about helping out when he's in to block. Regardless, our starters are fine, but aging. We have no depth at DE (I'm sorry, but Mosley and DeVito are not exactly the depth you want to have at a position that is rotated as much as a 3-4 DE) and this will come to haunt us.
Good post, Quack. An important factor about the DL is that unlike the OL at least there is some bench strength. We'll see a lot of rotating on the DL.
i think collectivly, as a unit, each addition we've made, will make the unit, as a whole, better. i'm not worried, yet.
Part of the issue with Ellis over the last 2 seasons NYJATW is that Dwanye Robertson was our Nose. Ellis our best pass rushing lineman was a non factor because Robertson could not hold at the POA, pretty much the same reason why Vilma had such a horrible 2 years in the 3 -4 system. If DRob was a TRUE 34 nose taking on 2 or more blockers at a time, that would have left A LOT of one on one situations for Ellis to free up to handle the 2 gap assignments. However in the 34, the linemen are NOT the playmakers, it is your LBs, but Ellis should benefit greatly from Jenkins being at the nose as far as Coleman, we'll have to see how that plays out.
Man you are talking of TGG here where most everybody wears green colored glasses & drinks green Koolade
From my recollection it was a mix, somewhat a Hybrid system that is common in the Parcell, Belicheck, Mangini systems, move guys around, disguise fronts, etc..etc...
why does everyone hate coleman? he is like 6'6 295 lbs..and had the most tackles for all the lineman. he is def a solid player
Coleman is good against the run but lacks pass rushing skills. He's not a bad 3-4 lineman, but not a dominating one. I'm excited to see how much having Jenkins in the middle will effect the play of both him and Ellis this year. Adding outside threats like Pace and Gholston will also make a difference on passing downs as well. We could be very good, but I want to see things shape up on the feild like I belive they can before getting too happy about it.
Fuck you. The song is in my head now. Woooooeeeeeoooeeeeooooooeeeeeeooooooeeeeooooooo Don't worry. Woooeeeooooeeeoooeeeeeoooooo Be happy. Doo doo doo doo doo Don't worry be happy now.
I think our defensive line, both in the 3-4 and 4-3, are the least of our concerns this year. I don't know if they will be lights-out right off the bat, but it's the reason I am excited about this coming season.
Maybe I'm just letting myself become jaded like years past, but I have seen Kris Jenkins shift the momentum for his team single-handedly, and even if he does take a few games to get it together at 3-4 NT, I think that will be the extent of the time we wait for the true impact of KJ to take effect. Teams can't help but double-team a monster like that. We have increased the player size significantly, and while we don't know the success of these unknowns on the defensive starting roster, most of the new faces can't help but at least equal the production from last season. That is the worst case scenario. Drafting Vernon is key... to success or failure. They are not going to depend on the #6 overall to spend his career in rotation duty. This guy is going to start from day one. We have that trend from this current FO's past behavior; Brick, Nick and Darrelle have all been career starters. Mike Tannenbaum and Eric Mangini haven't had a first round pick not starting from day 1. They know that they need production immediately and scout their players in such a fashion. If he comes as advertised, we are going to, at the least, be a very entertaining defensive team.
