Winning comes down to the ownership first and then everything else from there. A super bowl can be won by probably half the owners in the NFL, given the right circumstances, however there are definitely owners - like Bill Bidwill in Arizona - who have no practical chance to win a super bowl because their ownership skills are weak and non-competitive. The teams that have dominated over a period of years normally have either dominated previously under the same ownership or been recently acquired by new ownership. Kraft bought the Patriots in 1994 and a year later they went to the super bowl. 7 years later they began a super bowl run that is still in progress. Jerry Jones bought the Cowboys in 1989 and within 2 years they went on a super bowl run. Eddie DeBartolo bought the 49ers in 1979 and within 2 years they went on a super bowl run. Edward Bennett Williams bought the Redkins in 1969 and they almost immediately became a good team that went to the super bowl in 1972 and on a super bowl run in the 1980's. The Pittsburgh Steelers are a special case, because they were a family business and it's unclear when Dan Rooney took over from his father Art Rooney Sr, who had been a very unsuccessful owner over a period of many decades. The official passing of the torch was in 1974, when Dan Rooney became President of the team, however it's very likely that he was calling the shots from about 1968 on. He joined the team as Director of Pro Personnel in 1961 and gradually took over more and more responsibility from his father. Basically if you have great owners you get immediate improvement in the team's standing followed shortly by super bowl runs in succession after the new ownership arrives. This is what NFL history tells us. It's not an opinion, it's a fact.
Well look back 7 years ago to where the NYJ recent woes started from & then you see how important an owner is. Who hired Bradway? Who approved of Herms hiring? Why none other then our owner the Woody. A successful organization is one that has top of the line leadership at the top ala the Trump organization. A unsuccessful organization like the NYJs has weak or no leadership from the top. I guess you forgot your business 101 courses
OK then just so we are both crystal clear. You would not want Kraft to be the owner of the NYJs is that correct. A simple yes or no is enough. I do not need or want a morals lesson as to why you do not want Kraft as our owner BTW we left Rhodes out as a positive which gives us 3 positives & 8 negatives on D right? So if you agree that is correct & there are no more postives on D where does your positive thinking of the NYJs come from. Now if you agree on D want to the start on the O?
Yes that is what I presumed your reply would be. To me your reply translates into whoppee it gets me out of the house for 10 days per year & that is worth my $2,600.00 per year payment to Woody. Are you not the one who was railing last spring about Woodys constant season tix increases year after year? Now all of sudden when you have to commit as to why you are giving Woody $2,600.00 per year & then paying the xtra incidentals but really getting nothing back in return & now being asked it is all worth it you say Woody is wonderful & terrific. As a 1 fan boycott I doubt it would go very far but if you could rally the troops you maybe on to something with that suggestion. I once suggested we all chip in for a full page newspaper ad & that suggestion went over like a lead balloon. I suggest we get the media out & picket Woody's apartment but that to went over like a lead balloon. I suggested picketing at TC & that to went over like a lead balloon also so I think while I like your boycott scheme I doubt you will find enough people with the gumpton to help you implement it As for getting on a plane & seeing what it is like I went to EVERY NYJ home game between 65 & when I left NJ for Florida about 11 years ago. So I do not need to hop a plane to come to see what the "experience" is because I probably have seen it more times then you. I also NEVER tailgated I would leave my house at 11AM from exit 117 GSP with my son & depart back home right after the game. The best was when my son began driving his pop to the game. Thanks for the offer though & BTW I consider my ROI on such a trip as zero. Hooray for DTV that is the best $200.00 per year I spend IMHO
No. It's an opinion that can be refuted by facts. Look, football is a complicated game. It is far more complicated than any other major team or individual sport. As a result, to say any one factor leads to a championship, be it an owner, coach, QB, etc. is an extreme oversimplification. Ownership is but one factor in a team's success and it is minor, IMO. If a team has a good GM, a good HC, a good CS, good drafts, good cap management, development of players, and a lack of injuries, that team will compete for a playoff spot. Once the playoffs start, success depends on what happens in each individual game. I have yet to see an owner make a big play in a playoff game. There is an element of luck involved at this point. You can point to a big play in every key close playoff game of every season that determines the game. The owner has NOTHING to do with that play. As for your list, it is flawed and incomplete. Let's take it in order Kraft - I would say the SB appearance in 1996 had more to do with Parcells and Belichick on the CS than Kraft. The Pats also got a big assist when Denver, the best team in the NFL that year, lost to Jacksonville in round 2, giving the Pats a home game in the AFC Championship. As for the recent dynasty, we all know that Mo Lewis is the most important factor in this run. Without stumbling on Brady, the Pats don't win a title in this decade, let alone 3 or 4. Kraft had nothing to do with this and probably didn't know who Brady was in 2000. Jones - I don't know about you, but I happen to think that being in a position to draft Aikman and the fleecing of Minnesota and New Orleans with the Walker and Walsh trades (enabling the Cowboys to stockpile picks and build an awsome OL) had more to do with their three SBs in the 90s than Jones. To illustrate this, Barry Switzer coached that team to a SB title. Switzer - Jones' buddy - might be the worst coach to ever win a championship. That shows that the Cowboys won in spite of Jones and not because of him. Plus, they have not won a playoff game in 11 or 12 years. Is that because the owner is great or because he stinks???? Cooke - mistake on your part here. Williams was the owner of the Orioles and was only a part owner of the Skins. Cooke was the owner in the 80s and 90s. No matter. Same deal here - Gibbs had more to do with the titles than Cooke. Cooke also owned the LA Kings and LA Lakers in the 70s. The Kings were an abject failure and the Lakers fell apart in the 70s until Magic Johnson came along. So wouldn't a great owner in one sport be one in another? DeBartolo - Don't you think Bill Walsh, one of the great strategists and talent evaluators in NFL history, had far more to do with the 49ers success than a convicted owner????? And who was Walsh before the 49ers brought him in? A decent college coach at Stanford and a former NFL assistant. In his first two years with the 49ers, the team went 8-24. Then they drafted some guy named Montana in the third round . . . . and had some other great drafts (filling an entire secondary in the 1981 draft for one). Walsh built the 49ers, Montana was a major "find". DeBartolo went along for the ride until he was indicted. Some owner there. Johnson - just what should he have done differently? I'm going to put you on the spot now. In 2000 when he bought the team, Parcells quit on him, despite Johnson giving Parcells a blank check to stay on. So Johson's first move was to do anything to retain a HOF coach. Belichick should have been the Jet coach, but he left before Johnson even owned the team. In 2001, Parcells recommended Bradway and Edwards was hired. Who would you have hired in their place. Ron Wolf was not available. The current thinking was that the "hot" coaches at the time were Lewis and Fox, both of whom are on the verge of being fired. The Jets thought they had the QB that could lead them to a title, but in typical Jet fashion, he gets not one, but two serious shoulder injuries that essentially change his career. Who would you have hired instead of Mangini? I just don't see what Johnson has done wrong. I'm not defending him either, but this thread is ridiculous. Lastly, let's look at some other teams that have championships lately and their owners 2006- Indy - the Irsays were the laughing stock of the NFL for a long time. Polian is the architect of that team, not Irsay. 2005 - Pittsburgh - the Rooneys epitomize old time hands off ownership. They do not spend money and numerous players have left ofer the years through free agency. They have won with superiour drafting and coaching. Let's see where they go in the next few years. 2002 - Glazer - are the Glazers responsible for this one title, or was it Dungy and Gruden??? I can't recall anything Glazer did but bring in Gruden from Oakland to coach Dungy's team. Since 2002, the Bucs have not been a good team. The got old and have not been able to find a QB. Funny how that works sometimes, even with a good coach. 2000 - Baltimore - was Art Modell a great owner? This man couldn't win a thing ever. He is regarded as a brilliant mind and an owner who was responsible for bringing the NFL into the modern TV era. He is loathed in Cleveland. He fired Belichick. Did he build that defense that won the title in 2000? 1999 - Frontiere - May she rest in peace, she was a laughingstock owner for years. It seems to me that Vermiel, the Faulk trade, and finding some QB named Warner from the arena league (who was on the banch until Trent Green hurt his knee - again, who knew?) had more to do with the title than anything. Ownership is way way overplayed. The one thingk alsmost all the owners on this list have in common (other than DeBartolo) is that they either moved the team to get a new stadiuim or built a new stadium. Isn't that what Johnson has been trying to do ever since he bought the team??????
Re: Williams, Cooke In 1963, minority partners Leo DeOrsey, Edward Bennett Williams, and Milton King were appointed by a court as conservators of the team when George Preston Marshall was incapacitated by illness. In 1965, Williams became the Redskins president. In 1974, Jack Kent Cooke became the majority stockholder. (He had bought minority interest in 1960.) Williams remained as the team president and ran the day-to-day operations. In 1979, Cooke assumed control of the franchise.
Ask yourself a simple question: which teams have won 3 or more super bowls in the span of a decade? How long before that event did ownership or primary control of the team change hands? The overwhelming majority of teams that have been in that eviable position also had ownership or effective control of the team in fresh hands within 2 to 7 years of the events.
Don't understand the Woodie bashing hear and the boos at the stadium. He's not cheap with the players or coaching staff, he tried to get us back to NY and then decided to split a 1 billion stadium with the Jints instead of doing one by himself in Queens. I mean, get real, how could yo expect him to build their after losing the Manhattan deal. That's just not smart business. Look how much money he saved. Only a stadium in the heart of the biggest city on earth was worth that coin. Can you imagine what the PSL's would be if both teams did their own stadium. An before you metion the salay cap, if we go into next season 25 mill under and we have not upgraded the team like the Eagles fail to do evey year, then talk to me. Be happy, it could have been Jim Dolan.
Ask yourself a simple question - what did any of those owners really have to do with the success of their team???? Or phrased another way - if you were to look at the characteristics of those teams and why they won, you'd see it came to coaching, the QB, the GM, some amazing drafts, and some good fortune. The owners are along for the ride.
Sure, the owners take control of the team and shortly later, randomly, they win multiple super bowls. While the majority of NFL teams never change hands and never win multiple super bowls. Does that sound possible to you? If so I have this bridge I'd like to sell you...
The owner of ever organization in the World is ultimately responsible for the product of their organization. If they don't set the tone nobody else will. I can't believe anyone would seriously make the argument that the top of an organization has nothing to do with the product that organization puts out.
I have a theroy that the more a person posts about something it is due to the fact they are trying everthing in there power to show how much they know but really have limited knowledge of anything like JWWS & others do. I think somewhere JWWS posted he was a CPA so what he posts is totally shocking since he seems to have not the slightest idea of the chain of command & the I sign the paychecks syndrom
Sure that is a great overservation. See Lions/Cards/Seahawks to name a few. We also qualify even though we changed owners because our new owner is a clone of our old owner
Just to make sure your understand somebody who repeatly 8,10,12 or more paragraphs in each post. Here is an example of what I mean No. It's an opinion that can be refuted by facts. Look, football is a complicated game. It is far more complicated than any other major team or individual sport. As a result, to say any one factor leads to a championship, be it an owner, coach, QB, etc. is an extreme oversimplification. Ownership is but one factor in a team's success and it is minor, IMO. If a team has a good GM, a good HC, a good CS, good drafts, good cap management, development of players, and a lack of injuries, that team will compete for a playoff spot. Once the playoffs start, success depends on what happens in each individual game. I have yet to see an owner make a big play in a playoff game. There is an element of luck involved at this point. You can point to a big play in every key close playoff game of every season that determines the game. The owner has NOTHING to do with that play. As for your list, it is flawed and incomplete. Let's take it in order Kraft - I would say the SB appearance in 1996 had more to do with Parcells and Belichick on the CS than Kraft. The Pats also got a big assist when Denver, the best team in the NFL that year, lost to Jacksonville in round 2, giving the Pats a home game in the AFC Championship. As for the recent dynasty, we all know that Mo Lewis is the most important factor in this run. Without stumbling on Brady, the Pats don't win a title in this decade, let alone 3 or 4. Kraft had nothing to do with this and probably didn't know who Brady was in 2000. Jones - I don't know about you, but I happen to think that being in a position to draft Aikman and the fleecing of Minnesota and New Orleans with the Walker and Walsh trades (enabling the Cowboys to stockpile picks and build an awsome OL) had more to do with their three SBs in the 90s than Jones. To illustrate this, Barry Switzer coached that team to a SB title. Switzer - Jones' buddy - might be the worst coach to ever win a championship. That shows that the Cowboys won in spite of Jones and not because of him. Plus, they have not won a playoff game in 11 or 12 years. Is that because the owner is great or because he stinks???? Cooke - mistake on your part here. Williams was the owner of the Orioles and was only a part owner of the Skins. Cooke was the owner in the 80s and 90s. No matter. Same deal here - Gibbs had more to do with the titles than Cooke. Cooke also owned the LA Kings and LA Lakers in the 70s. The Kings were an abject failure and the Lakers fell apart in the 70s until Magic Johnson came along. So wouldn't a great owner in one sport be one in another? DeBartolo - Don't you think Bill Walsh, one of the great strategists and talent evaluators in NFL history, had far more to do with the 49ers success than a convicted owner????? And who was Walsh before the 49ers brought him in? A decent college coach at Stanford and a former NFL assistant. In his first two years with the 49ers, the team went 8-24. Then they drafted some guy named Montana in the third round . . . . and had some other great drafts (filling an entire secondary in the 1981 draft for one). Walsh built the 49ers, Montana was a major "find". DeBartolo went along for the ride until he was indicted. Some owner there. Johnson - just what should he have done differently? I'm going to put you on the spot now. In 2000 when he bought the team, Parcells quit on him, despite Johnson giving Parcells a blank check to stay on. So Johson's first move was to do anything to retain a HOF coach. Belichick should have been the Jet coach, but he left before Johnson even owned the team. In 2001, Parcells recommended Bradway and Edwards was hired. Who would you have hired in their place. Ron Wolf was not available. The current thinking was that the "hot" coaches at the time were Lewis and Fox, both of whom are on the verge of being fired. The Jets thought they had the QB that could lead them to a title, but in typical Jet fashion, he gets not one, but two serious shoulder injuries that essentially change his career. Who would you have hired instead of Mangini? I just don't see what Johnson has done wrong. I'm not defending him either, but this thread is ridiculous. Lastly, let's look at some other teams that have championships lately and their owners 2006- Indy - the Irsays were the laughing stock of the NFL for a long time. Polian is the architect of that team, not Irsay. 2005 - Pittsburgh - the Rooneys epitomize old time hands off ownership. They do not spend money and numerous players have left ofer the years through free agency. They have won with superiour drafting and coaching. Let's see where they go in the next few years. 2002 - Glazer - are the Glazers responsible for this one title, or was it Dungy and Gruden??? I can't recall anything Glazer did but bring in Gruden from Oakland to coach Dungy's team. Since 2002, the Bucs have not been a good team. The got old and have not been able to find a QB. Funny how that works sometimes, even with a good coach. 2000 - Baltimore - was Art Modell a great owner? This man couldn't win a thing ever. He is regarded as a brilliant mind and an owner who was responsible for bringing the NFL into the modern TV era. He is loathed in Cleveland. He fired Belichick. Did he build that defense that won the title in 2000? 1999 - Frontiere - May she rest in peace, she was a laughingstock owner for years. It seems to me that Vermiel, the Faulk trade, and finding some QB named Warner from the arena league (who was on the banch until Trent Green hurt his knee - again, who knew?) had more to do with the title than anything. Ownership is way way overplayed. The one thingk alsmost all the owners on this list have in common (other than DeBartolo) is that they either moved the team to get a new stadiuim or built a new stadium. Isn't that what Johnson has been trying to do ever since he bought the team?????? OK now you catch it right? See here is a guy that has been rooting for a losing team for 20 maybe 30 years & has NEVER seen a winner but says he knows everything about Kraft & his inner workings & how he operates the franchise attempting to alibi away why the NYJs are constant losers & the NEPs are constant winners.
I hate to break it to, but most people on this board have more football knowledge in their pinkie than you have. And some of them are under 20 years old. Reading your posts is like listening to a parrot repeating the same phrase over and over. "No Super Bowl in 39 years" "Woody is 0-8" "Champ wants a cracker" etc etc. Never ever ever - not once -despite being asked, begged, challenged, and called out in threads aimed at you - have you ever issued a post that analyzed anything, provided solutions, named specifics, or laid out a strategy for the Jets. All you can do is count and criticize. You can count the years since January 1969 and the years since Johnson bought the team and how many Super Bowls your beloved Patriots have won. You say the owner and the GM and the coach and the players stink, but you never offer an alternative. That makes you a coward. There is room here for many opinions. I happen to think that there are many on this board who are wrongly blaming the owner for the Jets' failures. As for your comment that I have limited knowledge of anything I can only say that you know nothing about me. Your comment is arrogant, rude, and paints you as the bitter ignorant old man you are. It also confirms that you are a coward. And for you to state that the more a person posts about something the more they are trying to show they know something when they know nothing ( I tried to translate your sentence - try getting a spelling and grammar book next time) is quite ironic (look up the meaning) because despite your thousands of posts, you really have posted the same two or three thoughts a few thousand times each. That proves how little you know. I also have been following football, not just the Jets, but football, for over 40 years. As for who I am - I am an attorney and I have worked in fortune 100 major corporations for 21 years. I know quite well how the chain of command works in a business. What is your background that makes so knowledgeable of the business world? What you and Br4dw4y5ux and others fail to realize is that football teams are not run like corporations. They are unique. Sure, there is the business side, for which the owner is responsible. That includes things like the stadium, revenues, practice facilities etc. Then there is the product on the field. You can't compare competing with other franchises on the field in the closed club that is the NFL with any other business . That competition, the wins and losses, comes down to the football people - the GMs and the coaches and the players. CEOs of corporations are chosen for their business acumen to run businesses. Owners of NFL teams are approved by other owners (who they compete with on the field and share revenues with - name me another business that does that!!) and buy the teams because they had the good fortune to have made or inherited fortunes. They don't rise to the level of ownership because of their football acumen (another word you can look up). To say that a person with a lot of money who buys a team is responsible for the success of that team, not as a business, but as a team, is just ignorant IMO. Do major corporations have drafts? Do they trade personnel? Don't most businesses succeed by driving their competition out of business? What good would it be for an NFL team to drive the other 31 franchises out of business? There is no comparison between the business world and the sports world. A team is a toy to most of these owners and they don't realize a profit until they sell their toy. I am still waiting to hear what you and other Johnson bashers think that Johnson has done wrong and what he should have done instead. It's too easy and simple-minded to say he hasn't won. One more thing to illustrate how fickle things are in the NFL. You know Hess, but in 1990, after Walton was fired, the Jets hired Dick Steinberg, a very respected "football' man to be their GM. Steinberg's first choice to be the HC at the time was Mike Holmgren, who was Walsh's OC in SF. Holmgren decided that he was not ready to be a HC at that time. One or two years later, Holmgren took the GB job. One year later, in 1991, the player the Jets wanted most was Brett Favre. Despite efforts to trade up to get him in the second round, Atlanta took him one pick before the Jets pick. The Jets took Nagle. So in the early 90s, the Jets very easily could have had Holmgren as the HC and Favre as the QB. If that had happened as planned and the Jets went on to win a SB or two in the 90's, would that have transformed Hess into a great owner???????? Next time, if you want to insult me or want to learn something about me, send me a PM as you like to say.
Next time, try to read my posts, as hard as that might be for you. First of all, I have been rooting for the Jets since 1965 and saw Super Bowl III. Second, I never said that I know everything about the Pats or Kraft. But I do know that Kraft had nothing NOTHING to do with the major factors that led them to 3 SB titles and 5 SB appearances. Kraft does not coach the team, nor did he discover Brady sitting on the bench in 2001. The Moe Lewis hit on Bledsoe is the single most important event in Patriot history. As for the Jets, I am not trying to alibi away why the Jets have not won since 1969. I am refuting that the failure to win is the owner's fault. That is all. If you want to pin the last 39 years on two men, be my guest. I think that it has more to do with the many GMs, the dozens of coaches, the hundreds of players, and the vagaries of the game than two businessmen who happen to have enough money to buy a team in sport they know little about.
