Trading Vilma now makes no sense in season. Trading him after the season if Mangini will unrelent and continue with his system.. makes sense. Mangini is here for at least another two seasons after this one. Mangini is here to build something. Mangini and Tannenbaum want him to build through the draft. They want to get their players in.. Mangini WILL NOT BE FIRED after this year. No way. The coordinators maybe will go.. but they'll go before Mangini ever would.
5-9 is not 3-13, 2-14, 1-15 bad. Show me a coach who coached a team to a disgustingly poor record (in a year that was not his first year with the team) and then turned them into a success and you have something. I was aware of Reeves' 1982 season (as I did look at every coach in the history of the league). Problem is it was a strike-shortened season. He could have coached that team to 6-10 or 7-9 if there was no strike. Furthermore, 2-7 is a winning percentage of .222 which is better than my cutoff of 3-13 (.188).
I don't care what cut off you had in your post. I was pointing out that those guys had playoff type seasons their first year then a huge drop off their 2nd.
You should care because you are distorting my point and my research. Mangini should survive a 5-11 or 6-10 season, which would be basically equivalent to your Bum Phillips example. Mangini should not survive a 3-13, 2-14, or 1-15 season. Coaches have taken step backs in the second year, sure. But if a coach goes from playoffs to laughingstock territory in year two, the franchise has a major, major problem, unless the team was hampered by severe injuries.
I cannot believe anyone wants Vilma to be traded. He's improving every week in the 3-4, and will be fine. He's also one of the best athletes on this team. It just makes no sense to trade him.
What?!? I am not distorting your research or your point. One, I don't think we will finish 3-13 or worse. Two, I bolded that part of your post because I was adding to the point that there have been coaches that have turned around a team after having success his first year then a drop off the second. It is my own point.
Of course, there have been coaches who regressed in year two. I was talking about coaches who regressed to ridiculously poor levels. You bolded my earlier comment about coaches who went 3-13/.188 or worse (in seasons which were not their first with a team) and essentially indicated I had overlooked some cases by citing the Phillips and Reeves examples. That was incorrect on your part because those two fellows did not coach their teams to that laughingstock level where you start to lose the team and there's infighting, and the media is all over you, etc.
As Cakes has pointed out 5-9 and 2-7 are not 3-13. Coaches who have truly terrible records in a season have a very strong tendency to do one of two things: 1. If ownership is on the ball they get fired. 2. If ownership is not on the ball they have a few more similarly bad records and THEN get fired.
I was expanding on Cakes comment not disputing it's accuracy. I cited Phillips and Reeves as examples of coaches' who had major setbacks their second years and then brought their teams to championship caliber status afterwards. Again, I bolded it because; of the whole post, that was the only part I wanted to expand on. Okay?!!?!?
Mangini needs a brain trust similar to what Belichek had with Weis and Crennel. I feel Schotty is capable with the right QB for what he really wants to do with an offense, but Mangini needs a better DC.. Sutton is a doddering old fool.
Mangini isn't going to be fired this year, even if the Jets don't win another game this year, which they will (we do play Miami again). And he shouldn't unless this Chad issue remains unrectified.
First of all, I'll stick with 5-11. Before the season started I believe I pegged them for 7-9 and then I downgraded it to 5-11 after two games. I'll stay with 5-11 for at least another week. But just follow me here for a moment... What if the Jets were to finish 2-14 with both wins coming against the Dolphins? Honestly, how could Mangini survive that? 2-14 is going to bring with it infighting, severe media and fan scrutiny and Mangini would have to rebuild the team which he was supposed to have done in 2006 and 2007. I don't see what Mangini has done here to deserve a second chance to rebuild. I could see if he won a Super Bowl last season, but all he did was squeak into the playoffs and lose on Wild Card Weekend.
Yes and no. The team had problems last year and overcame them due to bad opposition and gutsy play calling, which they dont have this year. 5-11 is realistic, and teams can bounce back from that kind of year. Teams that go 4-12, change coaches, defensive philosophy, and half the personnel on the team need 2-3 years before its time to go for the championship. We also need the defense and the QB to do it.
Post #38 in this thread was curious because of what you bolded. It appears that you were disproving what I put forth. (I wouldn't have a problem with that, by the way. I am human and capable of making mistakes.) Phillips and Reeves certainly had some problems in their second seasons. I don't know what problems the 1976 Oilers had, but I do know that the 1982 Broncos were an aging team. I also know that Craig Morton started 3 games that year and never played again. I think he got hurt, but he was at the end of the line anyway. Then Steve DeBerg took over as the starting QB. The next year we all know they made the trade for John Elway and were on their way. Damn it. I wish I had my old football preview magazines. I had a 1976 one, a 1982 one, a 1983 one. I moved six years ago and either threw those old magazines away or don't know where I put them. They would have helped here.
But it doesn't matter what anyone else other then Woody thinks. And Woody will not fire him this year. Personally, I don't think he should be either. He isn't taking another shot at rebuilding, he is still rebuilding. He should be formally reviewed at 3 years, and a decision made then. Again, that is my opinion. I take a bit more convincing then some people about things like this.
Johnson doesn't strike me as being very forward-thinking when it comes to his football team, so I betcha Mangini very well might survive a 2-14 season.
