I blame Idzik's ego - reports say he was going to trade up but didn't do so to spite Manesh Mehta and force him to make the long walk home
so we get harvin and all of the sudden everyone is thinking we'd be 5-2? Lets see harvin play a couple games first. For all we could know, he could've been placed on IR after week 1. This is the damn fanbase who thought we could win the AFC East Division when we were down 1-3 and thought we could be a playoff team after last year's 8-8 team (really should've been 6-10, we had a couple gimmes). I'm still young but starting to learn not to shoot my expectations over the roof for things on paper Harvin trade does get me more excited for the Bills game however
I was going to start yet another Idzik thread but what I have to say fits in quite nicely right here.... There has been a lot of belly aching about this Harvin trade...some say he's a cancer...some say he's going to help elevate us to winning a few games...some say this is all much ado about nothing. Here is the reality of the situation. We are 1-6 at this particular moment in time. As you all have, I have watched all 7 games. Only the San Diego game were we done pillar to post. Every other game we were either "there" or almost "there" in winning...the fucking Green Bay game will haunt me for years...no way in hell did we have any business losing that game...even with shit ass corners. Calming down.... Reality...This trade for Harvin should have ZERO impact on whether Idzik keeps his job. It's CLEAR that it was a desperate move...it's clear that it is far too little too late...these are facts. What is also clear is J.I. did not do the best job he could to set this team up for success at the outset of the season. The NFL is a fickle beast and you never ever ever sacrifice a season now for the future. That's not to say he goes buck as wild and spends money on any tom, dick or harry...but you spend in the areas that need spending. You fix what needs fixing! Our top three CB's were ALL circumspect...even our "vaunted" 1st round potential "bust" from last season. I don't remember ANYONE on here feeling all fuzzy at the start of the season. Every last person was bitching about our CB situation...every NFL, media pundit...the same thing. 7 games down and what are we talking about? CB... Harvin is just "noise" at this point. John Idzik had no way of knowing how things were going to shape in the league...to flush a season because he wanted to be clever and "sit" on $21 million in cap space for the future was stupid. The Patriots are surprisingly pedestrian this year...for the first time in the Tom Brady era the division is truly up for grabs and the Jets field an XFL team....that is on Idzik. Ryan doesn't shop for the groceries...that's Idzik's job. I thought Ryan did a tremendous job of making chicken salad out of chicken shit last year. Yes, he got some breaks and went 8-8...not so this year...in fact, we are MUCH worse talent wise this year than last...defensively speaking... Much like I can't compare Tom Brady to Joe Namath or Emmit Smith to Jim Brown...trying to compare John Idzik with Mike T. is the same....the situations are fluid and different. What I do know is Idzik has failed this team in 2014' and he failed it before the first snap of the first game...
All credibility is lost with those 2 statements. Trading a 6th round pick --- a clear desperate move????? We are not MUCH worse talent wise, I would argue the other way and you have to look at the entire roster not one side of the ball.
Here's the problem with crediting Idzik for this ... even though, as you point out, it was far better to get Geno in the 2nd than trade up for Sanchez in the first, it's still incredibly irresponsible for a GM to go into last season with Sanchez/Geno as your QB situation (as we knew Sanchez sucked, and Geno was simply a 2nd round QB every team passed on) and to go into this season (after seeing a full on demonstration that Geno last season) without at bare minimum a league-average starting QB on the roster. Now, I defended him (Idzik) for three months because I thought he went out and accomplished this is Year 2 by getting Vick, but it is now abundantly clear that Idzik never intended to let Vick compete for a starting job or even play; so it's on him. You cannot win in this league with a bottom 5 starting QB. End of story. QUESTION: Is your starting QB in the league's bottom 5? ANSWER: Yes CONCLUSION #1: Then you're not winning anything. Even if the rest of the team's talent level is the best in the league, you can't get to a Super Bowl (see Sanchez in 2009 and 2010). CONCLUSION #2: If you're the GM who has allowed yourself to have a bottom 5 QB two years in a row, you're too stupid to have the job.
Yes...desperate...the trade in and of itself is the desperation...not the compensation. You do not trade for an oft injured (recently anyway) known malcontent...mid-season...and expect to make any difference. Where was his wheeling and dealing ways BEFORE we were in this pooch screw....? Hmmmm??? Secondly...who gives a shit if the offense is better, talent wise, than they were last year...if you WATCHED the game on Thursday where did we lose that game? Did you watch the Packers game....? WHERE did we lose that game... Same can be said for the Bears game....that's THREE fucking games that if we get a stop....keep ONE god damn touch down off the board we WIN those games... The Packers game was inexcusable. Now you tell me about the ENTIRE roster... Don't even GET me going down the whole Red Zone discussion....credibility my ass... Pfftt....tell ME about credibility...
There seems to be this prevailing notion that this move is either desperate or a great deal for the Jets. I think it's both. I think he thought one or more of the WRs he drafted would step up prior to the start of the season. When that didn't happen, I think he was OK with going through the season with what we had with the thought of attempting to address it again next off-season. I think the unexpected and overwhelming pressure from the local and national media, made him go out and get a playmaker now even though the season is over. Even though the timing reeks of desperation, he got a good deal in terms of the compensation he's given up. The latter is consistent with what he's done and/or not done in his 2 years. His talent evaluation can be shit more often than not, but one thing he's proven thus far is that he will not overpay.
The deal is not so good...this just in... http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/11727394/if-no-trade-percy-harvin-was-cut-seattle-seahawks We got fleeced for anything... LOL!!!! Like I said before...the Harvin crap is all just "noise" at this point.
We were just making sure we got him. I see no problem with the trade. It's more or less a 9 game tryout. If he doesn't work out, then we cut him with no losses.
There was no desperation in this move at all. Seattle initiated this whole thing, not Idzik, as all the articles state they contacted us and several other teams about possible trades. In fact, Idzik was the opposite of desperate, as he refused to give Seattle what they initially wanted for Harvin, waiting until they agreed to what's pretty much a steal for us. This desperation idea is the same type of nonsense that fans invent about everything (the idea that Idzik is sabotaging Rex, that Woody is only interested in ticket sales, etc). I am pretty sure that Idzik's job was safe this year and quite possibly next year no matter what happens. Nobody fires GMs 2 years in, unless they really do something inexcusable. You are right though in that Idzik wanted to try to get a 2nd starting WR opposite Decker through the draft this past offseason (Evans, Enunwa, Hill, Nelson, Ford) to save on salary cap, so he tried that and it didn't work out. None of those guys stepped up. So now, like any rational person, Idzik was going to do something else to address it, and when the Harvin thing came up, it was a good way to address it. You do realize that if we wait until Harvin gets cut, then it becomes a free agency process, with all the other teams able to bid for him. One of the reasons we were one of the few teams that could pull this trade off with Seattle is because his contract requires his new team to have a lot of available cap space, which not many do. But if he is released, his new contract would likely be for less cap hit per year, but more guaranteed years. This would allow more teams to join in, and some of them to possible offer him ridiculous deals with lots of guaranteed years. The way we got him, there are no guaranteed years past this cheap one. That's a lot better, since he s got some question marks. Also there is no guarantee he would choose to come to us and not to some other team for whatever other reason.
I hear what you're saying. We gave up a 2nd round pick for Sanchez and a handful of marginal players. For Geno, we gave up nothing. So, yes, the cost for Geno was not as high as for Sanchez, which was shockingly low. But here's the fallacy: Great value ≠ good pick. In both cases, we got two players for relatively low draft cost, but in both cases we paid a heavy price.
Where was this trade "Before"? It's not clear Harvin was up for a trade "before," at least not for the price we paid. All accounts I've read suggest this was a relatively recent thing. I'm speculating, but I'm thinking that Seattle was probably asking for more than anyone was willing to give up. This was a low risk move.
Who gives a shit who contacted who? Whenever you have a player you want to dump, of course, you are going to be the one contacting teams. Even the Browns who have WRs issues of their own and have an actual chance at the playoffs elected to pass, as they are NOT desperate. Only the thirsty Jets jumped at this. It was clear early we were not going to get anything out of our rookie WRs well before going 1-6. A "rational person" attempts "to do something to address it" prior the season going in the toilet. I firmly believe there is an element of desperation with this move, particularly the timing. If you were willing to go into the season the WR corps we had while sitting on 20+ million dollars of cap space, endure a 6 game losing streak and DO NOTHING, then winning this year was not a concern. The only thing that changed to now make it OK to spend $7 mil of our precious rollover cap space on a 9 game rental or $17 mil if he stays is the intense media criticism at the GM. IMO the move was done to placate the media and irate fan base and have them put their pitch forks down. If it was Rex NOT Idzik getting lambasted for our current start, I doubt Idzik makes this move.
I would be on the desperation bandwagon if there was no nfl season next year and we gave up a 1st rounder. Instead we traded for a player who can be on this team for MULTIPLE year, not on the last year of his contract. I don't see the desperation here, we gave up a 4th rounder at worst and that means harvin is on the roster next year. I do not understand the desperation talk. This team plays next year too. What's the reasoning not to get Percy at a price you like? Because we are out of it we should stop adding talent to the team?
The reason other teams turned down Harvin was because Seahawks were asking them (and us) for a lot more for him early on. Supposedly they asked the Broncos for Julius Thomas, their elite TE for Harvin. Idzik, who has a great relationship with the Seahawks front office, most likely had the first dibs on any kind of offer from them, as long as they could get nothing better. So when other teams and the Jets refused to fork over anything substantial, Idzik got the first offer to get him for peanuts (4-6th round pick). As far as your bolded statement and the associated argument, no it wasn't clear at first (when other WR options were available). At that point, Idzik wanted to give the draft picks and others (Hill, Ford, Nelson) a chance to step up and be our 2nd receiver for a small salary cap hit. By the time it became clear that they weren't going to work out for us, after several games into the season, what other options were there? All the free agents were obviously gone by that point, and I don't see other teams dangling trades for top tier WRs, do you? In general, to show that there is desperation, you have to show some evidence of it beyond fans' conspiracy theories. Desperation involves things like taking on terrible contracts for overrated players, trading away significant assets, etc. None of that is the case here, where we got a high-end offensive weapon with some issues but those are mostly way overblown, and a great contract that's lets us walk away at any time we don't like how things are going, and we gave up next to nothing. If this is what desperation is, then most of us here must be dating Cindy Crawford. What heavy price did we pay with Geno though? We needed a franchise QB, we spent a 2nd round pick to try a quality prospect out for that role. That' s a MUCH smaller price than 1st + 2nd round pick with Sanchez. Most QB prospects don't work out in the NFL, so you can't really use a pick not working out against a GM, but you can use the details of how they got the pick + things like the huge contract Tanny gave Sanchez later.
The heavy price we paid for Geno was setting the organization back two years. With Geno, it was like "well, he fell to us, and his value at this point in the draft is good, so let's take him." My point is: you don't pat yourself on the back at what a great value you got for your franchise QB after he just set you back 2 years. PS: completely agree MT should in no way have given Sanchez a new contract. It reflected everything wrong Sanchez -- he was mentally fragile, was coddled and pampered and after Manning spurned the Jets' offer, they gave him a new contract. Confounding. PPS: I'm not saying you hold it against a GM always when a player doesn't work out. But I do hold it against a GM (and I like Idzik) drafting for a position like QB because the guy falls to you and it's good value.
Ummm,, Losing Sanchez, when He could have had him for 4 Mil (remind me how effective Vick was in relief again? same money), and Letting Cro walk...in a defense that needs ONE shutdown corner... Idzik destroyed this season, and thats without going into his drafts.
Well, the way I look at it, a QB is a different position than any other, and you have to keep trying prospects until you hit the gold mine. It's also good to keep your cap flexible in case a quality QB becomes available via trade/free agency, but that happens very rarely. So usually you have to get one through the draft. Unless you luck out and get #1 pick in a year where someone like Manning or Luck is available (effing Colts), you just have to keep trying with guys with questions about them like Geno. What else would you want Idzik to do in that scenario? Pass on Geno and then what? We might not get a chance on a guy of his potential for a long time after that. I know there are people here who believe the next draft was better in terms of QBs, but we had a concrete chance to take Geno without reaching, and no idea whether we would have that chance with any 2014 QB. All of them could easily be gone by the time we pick, unless you consider major reaches, like drafting a guy like David Carr or Garopollo in the first round. So to me it was a good pick. How do you know Sanchez would've been any more effective? Have you forgotten his last couple of seasons starting for us? Cromartie is 32, not part of our future, and Idzik had to clear the way for his young players (Milliner and McDougle). They've had injuries, but that's hindsight talking, if Cromartie stayed and had an injury like he did last year, and was the worst CB in the league, he would've been just as useless, and without any long term potential. Let it go. And his drafts aren't that bad even now, when it's too early to judge them. Richardson is a stud, Amaro looks like a stud, Aboushi and Bohannon are solid, guys like Pryor and Dozier can come around.
I don't think you can use the Harvin trade to compare Idzik and Tannenbaum because given the circumstances Tannenbaum would have made the deal also. Any GM would have made this deal if they were dealing with a sputtering offense with not enough talent at WR and the price was really a conditional 6th up to 4th. Harvin has played 60 games in the NFL and has 303 catches already. If you normalize it to a 16 game season he's catching 80 balls per 16 games. He's only got 47 starts in the 60 games. He's a real talent, he's just not the cookie-cutter #1 WR type teams expect out of that kind of production. He's more of playmaker than a WR. He's what Tavon Austin hopes to be some day. Hopefully the injuries in 2012 and 2013 were just normal random luck for an NFL player of his size. He's played all 5 games for the Seahawks this year and assuming the physical didn't show anything he's probably going to play most of the games for the Jets.
