we were one of the better teams in the AFC during these years so if they were starting they must have at least been decent.
Not trying to be a darksider, but where is the evidence that the Jets have "a top notch scouting department evaluation".If you said its just based on the Richardson signing then I agree. So far we have only the second Idzik draft to go by not 5 drafts under him as GM. More drafts=increased reliability. The fact that Idzik can switch to FA just means he has has been frugal with our cap money. That's great, and I am not saying he isn't a good manager. I pray daily that this "grading system" way we evaluate players players hits us several home runs. All these players Mcdougle,Saunders etc. fly in the face of "expert" higher quality picks. Idzik's picks are gutsy calls, but not having at least one successful maneuver (not three) (trade,move up) is a bit suspicious for someone being paid his salary. I think plenty of us on the GG could have let players "fall our way" and told the press "boy we tried". Plenty of CEOs and corporate honchos dupe their shareholders the same way.
PIT 2001-2012 2nd and 3rd round picks: 2001: Kendrell Bell (DROY) 2002: Randle El (2005 1st team All Pro), Chris Hope 2003: Alonzo Jackson 2004: Ricardo Coclough, Max Starks 2005: Bryant McFadden, Trai Essex 2006: Antohny Smith, Willie Reid 2007: Lamar Woodley (2nd team all pro), Matt Spaeth 2008: Limas Sweed, Bruce Davis 2009: Urbik, Mike Wallace, Keenan Lewis 2010: Jason Worilds, Emmanuel Sanders 2011: Marcus Gilbert, Curtis Brown 2012: Mike Adams, Sean Spence 2013: Le'Veon Bell, Markus Wheaton NYG 2001-2012 2nd and 3rd round picks 2001: Will Peterson 2002: Tim Carter, Jeff Hatch 2003: Osi, Shiancoe 2004: Chris Snee 2005: Corey Webster, Justin Tuck (4 picks this draft total, those 2, Brandon Jacobs, Eric Moore) 2006: Sinorice Moss, Gerris Wilkinson 2007: Steve Smith, Jay Alford 2008: Terrell Thomas, Mario Manningham 2009: Clint Sintim, William Beatty, Ramses Barden, Travis Beckum 2010: Linval Joseph, Chad Jones 2011: Marvin Austin, Jerrel Jerigan 2012: Rueben Randle, Jayron Hosley So it's hard to compare since I know more of the Jets players, but the Steelers one looks better and so does the Giants. But it's really not that HUGE of a difference, it feels like the Steelers and Giants hit on one or two more big time "steals" and boom that helped big time. The Mike Nuget pick is still one of my least favorite picks ever. Bothers me to this day.
Good point, especially when you say we need to get you're stars out of 2nd and 3rd round players. But speaking of 2nd and 3rd round picks, we are talking about Amaro and McDougle this year: one probably a sure thing and the other an absolute head scratcher. Plus, again looking at the draft process under Idzik, 2012 had us taking Hill and DeMario Davis. So either Idzik or our evaluation team could stand a bit improvement and while Idik is better in saving the Jets money this doesn't make him a savior....yet.
I think you're being a little harsh & are selling some solid performers alittle short.That said, there aren't any real super stars on this list which is your point.The Jets have lacked the ability to draft star power.Totally agree w/ that. My original point was more based on a pet peeve of mine. There's a sector of Jet fans that want to drastically change course & overall philosophy at the first sign of a mistake or failure. What they fail to realize is that over time they end up contradicting themselves & essentially chasing their own tail. Example: Herm Era: "Stop drafting low ceiling immediate performers who don't develop & lack athleticism.Get guys w/ upside" Rex era(after a couple failed picks) "Stop drafting physical speciman projects & get players who are ready from day 1" Football isn't an absolute game. Drafting players isn't a perfect science. You have to weigh the pro's & con's of every situation. That isn't to remove any blame to the Jets front office..but rather allow some room for common sense & interpretation. Not panicking & changing course at the first sign of adversity. All teams miss on picks.It happens.
Love the research you did there, but man our 2nd rounders / 3rd rounders compared to the Steelers and Giants looks really bad now that you can look back ... we had David Harris, Sione Pouha, and Eric Smith ... none of our selections have been to a Pro-Bowl and I believe that includes David Harris ... The more I look at it the worst it is ...
I compare ours, and by not huge difference I mean it's not like these teams are consistently getting players from the 2nd and 3rd round. There are a ton of busts on their lists too. The difference is good to great players or whatever adjectives you want to use to separate the two. While David Harris is a very good player, I think NYG and PITT got one or two players better than David Harris at his position. Or maybe not better, but play a more impactful position. Again, by HUGE I mean these two other teams are not building through the 2nd and 3rd round. They have a ton of busts too and misses and no long term players. But the players they hit have just been a bit better or they've hit on one or two better players. That slight difference is enough for a couple wins in the long run and salary cap and etc.
I think you're basically wrong on every level here man. When you loo at the draft as a whole, the Jets have hit on a lot of guys. The scouts have nothing to do with the decision to trade away picks, but we have drafted quite well overall. Every team in the league has busts, it's the nature of the draft system. Try and give me 1 team that hasn't had a high profile bust and a mid level bust or two over the past few years, and I promise I'll be able to give you some examples that prove otherwise. The main examples of the Jets' busts in recent history are Vernon Gholston (one of only two who I personally believe is a true bust) Kyle Wilson (Nearly a second round pick who is a solid contributor but never made the jump to full time starter) Vlad Ducasse (a project who didn't even come close to converting his raw gifts into skill until 2013, and even then couldn't do it remotely consistently. Definitely a bust) and Stephen Hill, a project player who has shown improvement from his first to second season. I refuse to call Hill a bust until we see what he does this year. That is not an unusually high amount of busts or bust-like players. The problem is that we traded away too many picks over the years, and banked too much on our guys panning out. In fact, when you compare the percentage of quality NFL players we've drafted to busts we've drafted, we have a better ratio than at least half the league does. The biggest problems we've had are oversized FA contracts to players who didn't play at a high level consistently, and trading away the picks that would have been the sorely needed depth of our team. Neither of those issues have anything to do with the scouts, (all Tanny) and the scouts have actually done a better job evaluating talent than most teams in recent years.
Ah ok, got your point - that is very true, those teams aren't consistently getting good players in those rounds. The draft is a crap-shoot. Those rounds haven't been good to us since 2008, so let's hope our new class and future classes make up for it.
I really dislike those two picks... I knew very little of them at the time of the draft and now I know why... I really dislike "projects and gambles". We haven't had a strong supporting cast to bring kids like these along slowly... In actuality we are setting up these two players in particular up 4 failure. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Now I do think things have changed and will be different especially in the locker room... Better leadership can help these two flourish. My question is... Is there's enough time? Would Jet fans and more importantly management welcome them 2 hang around for another year or so 2 properly grow into decent players... IDK... Your thoughts please.. Thanks Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I like Idzik because he has an agenda and he sticks to it. You can tell that everything he does there is a lot of thought and care to it. He believes that every pick has an ornate value, I like that too. He said if he couldn't find a deal he would just use the picks. And that's what he did. You keep bringing in talent to compete for every position that's how you build a champion.
