Why can't we just look at each athlete holistically? The college career AND the combine. Sure there are workout warriors but there are also guys who look amazing in college but don't translate to the pros due to athleticism issues. I don't get why some people act like the Combine is the devil. Use it as a tool. Just don't go all Raiders and base your decisions solely on it.
What difference does it make if you get say 11 starters from 15 picks versus 11 starters from 25 picks? It's the same number of starters. As pointed out, the chance of getting a starting player after round 3 is like 10%. The Jets missing the playoffs last year had to do with having a terrible QB with a moron OC that didn't manage the offense in a way that benefitted his garbage QB. Not having no 6th rounders in 2010. Jesus people!
So Green Bay has produced 6 more starters in a 6 year span than the Jets. They've produced 7 pro bowl seasons out of the draft to the Jets 4. 30 of the players that played for the Packers last year were drafted since 2006 by the Packers. 36 players who were on their Super Bowl winner in 2010 had been drafted by the Packers in the previous 6 seasons. The Jets on the other hand had 15 players on their roster last year that had been drafted by the Jets since 2006. Half the number that the Packers had. The year before that they had 17 players they'd drafted on the roster, less than half of the Packers total. The difference in organizational philosophies could not be more starkly contrasted as are the results of those philosophies.
Yeah, I went Revis from 2007 on, my bad. I remembered not to count Aaron Rodgers (2005.) The point stands, the Jets have gotten far less lasting value out of the draft than the Packers. That's because the Packers have twice as many drafted players on their current roster as the Jets.
It really just depends on what you're calling "value". Is it Pro Bowlers? Is it late round draft picks becoming starters? Late round draft picks becoming role players/backups? Lack of busts? How do you factor in the Jets scouting department in the scouting of undrafted free agents? Do you penalize Tannenbaum because guys like Moore, Pouha and Thomas have played well since before he became GM, making him not place those positions as highly in the draft? My point is, there are soooo many variables which make any kind of blanket statements tough to apply.
its because the packers arguably have the best scouting department in the league ... there are plenty of teams that have made more picks than the jets during the tanny era and do not match the success that the jets have had drafting the jets are not the best drafting team in the league, but theyre not nearly as bad as youre making them out to be
So you're willing to settle for a mediocre scouting department that routinely advises the GM to trade up because they have no confidence in their evaluations beyond a few prospects that they consider can't miss?
lol at Joe McKnight and John Conner being "solid contributors" They're both awful. Whoever said the Jets give up after round 4 was pretty spot on. Our roster is terrible outside of center, left tackle and corner.
McKnight was one of the best kick returners in the league last year. Conner was a very good fullback too. Why do you think he's awful?
Every kick returner we have does well. McKnight as a RB is terrible. For a 3rd down back he's slow and goes down on first contact. I never understood that pick...he wasnt any good at USC either. Felt like Tanny just wanted to take a name there based on his rep coming out of HS. Connor is a fullback. Drafting a one in the 5th round is a waste of a pick when you can get the same production from an UDFA. And Connor is just ok. He was a downgrade from a 40 year old Tony Richardson.
Maybe our scouts are really good at drafting kick returners? I agree that he has a long way to go as a RB. Connor graded out better in '11 than Richardson did in '10.
Yep. Tanny took a player entering the NFL based on H.S. That makes a shit load of sense. And if you actually know anything about him, you would know that he’s one of our biggest playmakers and that on any team his been on, he’s been one of the most athletically gifted players on the team.
The talent evaluation on the Jets is terrible. The understanding of fundamentals is worse. The Jets signed TWO wide receivers over the age of 34 last season while their line depth collapsed. How could that possibly have been a good move? The Jets were signing Derrick Mason, forcing Cotchery out the door, at the same time they were learning that Rob Turner was done for the year. How could that possibly have been a good sequence for them? They were salivating all over Asomugha while real offensive linemen were signing relatively cheap contracts in Baltimore and SF and their teams went on to prosper. The Jets got a real bounce out of Rex Ryan when he showed up and infused them with the player's coach lift and a defensive makeover. That bounce is over now. They're not going anywhere new without some real talent upgrades and this front office hasn't done anything special talent wise in the draft since 2007.
I have been re-watching games lately and one of the players I focus on is Conner, mainly because I will see some random criticism about his game, and wonder where it originates. I don't see it yet. Is there some specific set of plays you can reference to back up your claim that Conner is 'awful'?
Did you watch any Jets game this season? He did have a rough end to the season, but so did the entire team... But his play on ST? Returning Kicks? Blocking the punt in the cowboys game shifting the momentum onto our side? His blitz in the Pats game that caused a David Harris INT? His 40+ KR avg that he had for the first 10 games or so? He easily should’ve been elected to the pro bowl for KR. If Schotty actually knew how to use people with playmaking ability then he could’ve produced more on offense, especially in the passing game. He is one of two who I felt had the ability to go the distance when he touched the ball. The other player is Holmes. I can not say the same about anybody else on the offensive side of the ball or even ST’s. IMO, that speaks of playmaking ability, and if you cant see that, then its not worth arguing. And BTW, he’s probably top 5 fastest players on the Jets, and he has very good carrying vision that helps with his elusiveness. I completely disagree with your assessment of him. With all this being said, I dont think he will be a great player, but a great role player. But out of all of the backs we have, he is the one that I feel can be the best player and has the most potential.
Conner did a solid job at FB... I think there was an article somewhere on here that said he was rated one of the better FBs in the league this year. Im not really sure where he’s getting much of this information to base his claims off of.
There's a video on NFL.com on the top 10 combine performances since 2008, and both Dustin Keller and Vernon Gholston were on there. Vernon had an incredible combine putting up 225 37 times. It was funny to hear the analysts talking about his great combine performance, and then how he hasn't registered a sack in the NFL. He is the perfect example of why you shouldn't put too much stock in combine performance because it doesn't necessarily transfer over to football talent.
