I think it works both ways. Warren wasn't known to have quick feet at Michigan and the Combine confirmed it. Dustin Keller had a terrific Combine and the Jets moved into the end of rd 1 to draft him.
This. Completely discounting it is ludicrous, even if people usually place too much emphasis on the 40, bench, vert etc.
This is what the combine is best for. A guy shows up and suddenly his 40 time is actually 4.52 instead of 4.44 His strength isn't what you need out of the position he plays in the NFL. He is a knucklehead who freelanced in college successfully and then you realize that he's not going to get your system in the pros and his physical gifts won't translate as a result. I have no problem with people moving down in the combine. I don't think anybody should ever move up based on how they show at the combine. If the film said they were going to be good before and the combine doesn't dent that then that's one thing, but if they're Dewayne Robertson there is no way in hell they are going to be an impact player in the NFL. And BTW, I'm not arguing that the combine doesn't have value. I'm arguing that the Jets do so poorly in their draft related trades and drafting lately that skipping it wouldn't make a difference. There's no point for them in sending a team to the combine when the only thing likely to come out of that is another stupid trade-up or project player who never pans out.
If we skipped the combine each year we wouldn't have drafted Revis. His stock rose as the draft got closer. While I would hope our front office keeps things in perspective instead of reaching for guys like Gholsten because they look good in a pair of shorts, we need as much information as possible to make good decisions. The combine serves a purpose but we need to be careful of the guys that look like Tarzan and play like Jane.
well if the jets brass cannot see thru some of the posted numbers that these guys put up and other metrics than we are putting way too much faith in their ability to judge a football player. if i was GM/scout director i would want to be on the field during these drills. i want to see how these guys act before and aftertheir turn, hear what they say, and how they act with their colleagues.
Hitting 1 great player while you fruitlessly trade up for several others and wind up with a roster full of projects is no way to run an organization. The Jets were weaker than they needed to be last year because they had minimal help out of the draft the last few years and some of their main stays got old/let go. This has to change. If the Jets maintain business as usual they're going to be the 4th place team in this division faster than you can say Bradway Sucks.
I think you're over-valuing late round draft picks. Pick any team and look at their draft picks rounds 4-7. There's a reason those guys are drafted where they are. I don't think the Jets track record for getting either starters or role players is much if any worse then the average.
I often feel that teams would do a lot better just getting a subscription to ourlads and using their scouting guides than they would get out of having their own scouting departments as they seem to get it right a lot more often than the teams do.
Why would you trust an outsider's opinion, especially when your team is spending millions investing in a player?? Bad idea! I've followed the draft probably longer than most on this site and it's not an exact science. You try to make an educated decision from all the data and film on a player. A few posters in this thread aren't giving the Jets credit, overall the Jets have been drafting better than average since Tanny has been GM. Revis, Mangold, D-Brick, Harris are all outstanding players. Sanchez, Greene, Wilson, MoWilk the jury is still out, but aren't busts and could/should develop into solid players. I like our options to get another outstanding player at #16..we should get a good football player.....Upshaw, Ingram, DeCastro, Mike Adams & Mercilus are my top 5 targets.
Obviously my post (or perhaps not that obviously) was not entirely serious! Having said that I too am a massive fan and follower of the draft and for quite a while was a subscriber to ourlads (they used to find it very funny back in the 90's that some random guy in the UK was subscribing to their hard copy draft guides) and looking at their reviews of players I would tend to find that they got it right on players a hell lot more often than the vast majority of teams did and my mate and I used to joke that teams would be better served just looking up whoever ourlads said was the BPA at the time it was their pick and going with that!
Name a player as good as Ahmad Bradshaw that the Jets have picked out of a draft after the 4th round during the Tannenbaum/Bradway era. We're not talking Tom Brady here, we're talking solid players that contribute and the Jets are oh-fer-the-century at this point. That's a horrible draft record.
Talking about just the Tanny era, what about Slauson, Conner, Coleman? There's also Goodwin if you go back to '02. But speaking of just the Tanny era, that's 3 useful players, 2 of whom are starters. It's convenient that you omit the 4th round where we've had quite a bit of success even though that was included in the post you responded to.
Slauson was the weakest contributor in 2010 and only Hunter made him not the weakest last season. Conner sees the field about as often as Brunell does. Well, that's a bit of an exaggeration but he's clearly not a big contributor to the offense at this point all hype aside. The 4th round is where the Jets give up. I didn't include it because since 2007 the Jets have only used 3 4th round picks and none of them were big contributors last year. Powell didn't see the field much, McKnight still couldn't get on the field for more than token snaps in his second season and Lowery was gone.
You don't include it for the same reason you refuse to include the 2006 draft. Because it really hurts your argument. Conner saw nearly 400 snaps in 2011 which put him at 6th in that category for fullbacks. He was also graded as the 7th best FB in the league by pro-football focus, and as the most improved NYJ in 2011. Players no longer on the Jets but drafted by the Jets doesn't mean they drafted poorly. When Tannenbaum trades drafted players away, it's likely because they have some value to someone and were good picks. When the Jets don't re-sign a drafted player because someone else overpaid them, it's not because the Jets drafted poorly. Don't you think the Jets would have benifited by having Dwight Lowery at safety last year? In '06, the Jets got Brad Smith and Leon Washington in the 4th round. That's pretty good eh?
Tannenbaum became the GM in 2006. Since then he has drafted: D'Brick Mangold Eric Smith Revis Harris Keller Sanchez Greene Slausson Conner Wilkerson That also doesn't include role players like Kerley, Kyle Wilson and Joe McKnight. Not to mention role players currently on other teams like Lowery, Brad Smith, Leon Washington, Drew Coleman & Chansi Stuckey. You don't base a QB solely on their ability to complete 3rd downs over 15 yards. And when a quarter of your team including half your starters are taken over a 6 year period, not including the guys you traded your draft picks for, I think that's using the draft pretty effectively.
2nd and 5th round picks were traded away to get Cro and Holmes so while that is not drafting it is using the draft assets in a wise way. It's important to remember that from a cap perspective both guys were dirt cheap in thier first year and far outplayed thier value. Now they have bigger contracts going forward and need to live up to them.
A quarter of your team? You think getting a quarter of your team out of the draft over a 6 year period represents success? Go look at the Steelers or Packers or one of the other good teams in the NFL and get back to me on that.
OK I'll bite: Packers 2006 - Starters: Greg Jennings, Darren Colledge (with Arizona now), AJ Hawk - Role players: Will Blackmon 2007 - Starters: Desmond Bishop, Mason Crosby - Role players: James Jones, Brandon Jackson 2008 - Starters: Jordy Nelson, Jermichael Finley, Josh Sitton - Role players: Patrick Lee, Matt Flynn 2009 - Starters: BJ Raji, Clay Matthews, TJ Lang, Quinn Johnson, Jairus Wynn - Role players: Brad Jones 2010 - Starters: Bryan Balauga, Morgan Burnett, James Starks, Marshall Newhouse - Role players: Mike Neal, CJ Wilson, Andrew Quarles 2011 - Starters: None so far - Role players: Derek Sherod, Davon House, Randall Cobb, DJ Williams So 6 years, 53 picks, 17 starters. 32% of their picks become starters. And that's double dipping with their offensive tackles. For the Jets, 6 years, 33 picks, 11 starters. 33% of their picks That's not counting all the picks the Jets have used on players. When you factor in picks traded for Cromartie, Edwards & Holmes, it even goes further. Your point the Packers have done a better job of filling out their roster via the draft is a given. But that's completely ignoring the fact that the Jets have done a good job of using the draft to acquire starting caliber talent.
wow the most telling number there is total picks 53 to 33. no question the jets have been efficient with their picks compared too many teams but with efficiency comes more of a potential impact risk with each pick...... what positions do u whiff on (ex - gb has matthews and we whiffed on gholston) and are ur starters probowl caliber or just starters holding down positions. like all stats - numbers are numbers - but some tell more of a story than others. thanks
