Yeah at the least Mabey even like buchannon type player. Like it or not the Jets picked him so I'll root for him to succeed because if he dosent it's just that much worse for the team
Well, I'm glad you keep such optimism regarding Lee, but you and I can differ. What I saw in the Seahawks game was Lee was keeping up with Graham sure, but he NEVER turned his head even once to try and defend the pass. He also struggled tremendously tackling him. His size is obvious lacking and he does NOT have great instincts. Honestly, I think the only thing I that is keeping him off the BUST list is the faint glimmer of hope that he could some day be converted into a Safety? I do not think he'll ever make it as a linebacker.
A lot of those passes to Graham were indefensible. They were 1 handed over the shoulder / back shoulder passes. His technique needs to get better for sure, but it's hard to stop those catches. He was in position.
Honestly, I get that thinking and that's fine. But here's where I start to question whether Mac knows WTH he's doing.... As an undersized LB he needed to add muscle and for a team that was marginally good (played well beating bad teams on a cupcake schedule in 2015), he NEEDED to be basically red shirted so he could add muscle? And how the hell does that help a talent starved team in 2016? The fact is... It doesn't. The Jets NEEDED a player that would contribute right off the bat. There many other options at 20 that would have much better in the contributions...namely an OL. We could have gotten 73 tackles and a sack from a JAG making the league minimum. I really question Mac's competence based on that pick....
Sure, but once again he never turned his head even once and he could barely keep Graham from breaking it for a home run. He has BAD instincts and he's way too small to be covering TE's as talented as Graham. The idea that Lee will ever cover Gronk is laughable. So really the question is, what is he good at? Nothing as a LB the way I see it. He MIGHT be an OK safety some day?
I would like to see if he improves next year. Linebacker isn't easy to play. I don't think his instincts are bad because he's in position, he needs to finish the play. It will take a team effort to take Gronk down. I see Lee as a player that could help take down those passing running backs, like James White / Shane Vereen / Gio Bernard as well as contribute against TEs.
This is a silly argument. Please provide me a list of all the linebackers in the league that you think can single-handedly shut down Jimmy Graham and Rob Gronkowski. Once you generate that list, we can discuss why it's ridiculous for you to expect Darron Lee to be the best coverage linebacker in the league. His build is virtually identical to Derrick Brooks--even their exaggerated roster sizes exaggerate to the same numbers. I thought guys like Brooks and Zach Thomas (who was like 5'8" IRL, rosterxaggerated to 5'11") rid the NFL of the notion that LBs had to be big? I don't really care one way or the other on Lee: I hope he works out, but if he doesn't, I won't cry in my beer over anybody else that was available at that point in that draft, I think his potential meant he was worth taking at that point. He doesn't have the nose for the ball that Brooks had, or the strength and technique that Thomas had.
Well, you can wax poetic all you'd like and try to defend Mac's actions. They're indefensible, but once again you defend him if you'd like to no avail. The fact is, there were many other players that could have contributed in 2016 and not been a punchline. Instead, we as Jets have to hope that a perfectly good 20th overall pick can eventually be salvaged as a decent Safety? Mac should be fucking committed for making such a dumb choice. An OL was not only needed, but there were several via trading slightly up or down that would have made much better selections. Darron Lee was like flushing a perfectly good 1st round draft choice down the toilet. And as for the Derek Brooks comparison, Brooks was great in a 4-3. But Lee has been relegated to play in a hybrid 3-4? He's not only too small to play inside and his 2016 play proves that, but he's also way too lacking lean muscle to serve to serve as a pass rushing linebacker. So like I said, you can defend Mac and Minnie Mouse all you'd like, but looking at this pick objectively, you have to question Mac's ability to identify talent.
So you're saying you don't have a list of linebackers who can shut down Gronk and Graham on their own?
When did I ever say Lee needed to cover Gronk alone? Keep up with the debate and don't get stuck in 1st gear. But despite your dopey arguing points, there were many linebackers that can be much more effective covering Gronk or Graham for that matter. Lee can't even tackle either of those guys even after he gets torched. And while where discussing this, Lee allowed a 132.9 passer rating on receivers being thrown to. So it's not just Gronk or Graham, it's ANYONE he is assigned to cover.
You're an interesting fellow, aren't you? You argue that Lee sucks because he is undersized and can't cover Jimmy Graham or Gronk--these were your examples, not mine (see posts #63, #65, and #66). It's not my responsibility to pick your examples for you, Mainejet. For the record, I don't think Lee will do well in the league. I'm only commenting here at all because you're making a ridiculous argument, when there are plenty of sound ones that could be made on the same topic.
I'll give you one last chance I'll give you one last chance to understand and I'll use small words... There is nothing ridiculous about what I'm saying, just very logical thinking: 1) Lee was rated as a 4-3 LB based on his size and now he plays in a hybrid 3-4. The epitome of square peg in round hole. 2) He lacks the size to play inside in this defense and that's obvious based on 2016. 3) It's doubtful that he'll ever be able to play outside as he lacks the lean muscle mass to do the job. 4) His play in 2016 was fucking horrible. In other words, he did NOTHING to help the Jets win games in 2016. We could have gotten 73 tackles and a sack from a jag making league minimum. 5) He's even more of a liability in coverage than he is in defending the run. 6) Mac is a complete incompetent douchebag for making the Lee pick. The Jets needed an OL and there were plenty in the draft that would have had a much larger positive impact. 7) The Lee pick has not only been a complete waste, but it has set the Jets back for years in regards to talent. The results have already been severely negative as evidenced by a 5-11 season soon to be followed in 2017 with an even worse record than 5-11. 8) There is a faint glimmer of hope that the Jets could salvage a Safety out of Lee. Besides that? He is a 100% bust.
I'd like to thank you for graciously and generously providing me with this final opportunity. I'll do my best to make the most of it. Tell me again how Germain Ifedi or Jason Spriggs (the first two OL taken after the Lee pick) would have really helped the Jets (hint: Spriggs never cracked the starting lineup, and Ifedi was a serious contender for worst OG in the league), and how Kevin Dodd or Jaylon Smith (the next two LBs taken) would have helped us out with their combined 1 start in 2016. I don't think Lee is anything special, but I think that if picking him makes Mac an incompetent douchebag, then it follows that the four picks listed above indicate that the GMs for the Seahawks, Packers, Titans, and Cowboys are even more incompetent--which is ridiculous. Of course, this all contingent on how players perform in only their rookie year, which is, in and of itself, ridiculous. Again, thanks for giving me this last chance to understand your "very logical thinking".
Germain Ifedi may have been a contender for the worst Guard in the league? On a talentless OL, Germain Ifedi would have definitely started and been BETTER than Lee has been due to his size limitations. Lee was in fact rated as the very worst rookie LB in 2016. So if Ifedi is a contender for worst Guard? That's still way better than Lee. This, not to mention that Mac made attempts to trade up and get Laremy Tunsil. Mac was ultimately too cheap and thought the value was sufficient to get Lee at 20. BIG mistake. The Jets are now saddled with an extremely undersized LB that's basically a project. A project because he'll never be effective playing inside or outside in a 3-4 and that's assuming he can put on that 20 pounds and still maintain his quickness and agility. But all told using the 20th on a LB hat small was like flushing a 1st round draft choice down the tubes. Hell, he could have also selected Paxton Lynch or Lequan Treadwell at 20 and gotten more out of either one than the Jets got out of Lee and Hackenberg COMBINED, not that it ia saying much. Lee and Hack are two of the very WORST drafting choices the Jets have ever made. Right up there with Vernon Gholston, Blair Thomas, and Quinton Coples.
Oh, and the only reason why Spriggs didn't crack the starting lineup is because he plays for the Packers. A team with a WAY better OL thsn the Jets. The Jets OL is very old and extremely under talented. In other words, they NEEDED an OL and Mac completely ignored the need.
I don't wanna insult you..you're entitled to your opinion but you are coming across as extremely bias against Lee to the point of obsession. Lee DID contribute right off the bat as a nickel back. What he needs to add bulk for is those base 3-4 looks. The Jets already had Henderson/Harris in place for that role. They needed to start grooming a replacement for the middle while also desperately needing an influx of side to sideline athleticism. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around why you have such an issue w. this. It's not like the guy never got on the field. The Jets played nickel more often than any other look on defense...he was routinely out there for those downs. If you don't think the guy is gonna amount to anything..fine..you are entitled to that...but you act like this guy is Vernon Gholston or something...there was plenty to like about Lee when considering future return. I guess if you enjoyed the last several years of LB play before LEE..I.E. big thumping downhill guys w/ no sideline to sideline prowlness, limited explosion & absolutely no range beyond their initial drop in coverage...maybe than you'd hate Lee..b/c he is most def not one of those dinosaur types. This is the new NFL. traditional Position is not as important anymore as is being able to play in space,explosion downhill & change of direction...like it or not..that's reality.Now Maybe Lee turns out to just be an undersized safety & flames out..but the fact remains the Jets needed an LB, they needed explosive athletes...and many projected Lee to be gone long before the Jets selection. The pick made plenty of sense..
What I can't understand is, why he equates Lee with Mac sucking as a GM, the body of work is what should be looked at, not just one pick. Give Mac this off season and see what the team looks like when they are ready to start the season. We all know how fast jet fans can turn on management. If Mac deserves to be blasted, he will definitely get his.
Thank you for not insulting me. I get all of what you're saying, but the bigger question is what you need to ask yourself. That is, "Are the Jets a better team today han they were prior to Lee arriving?" The answer to that question is a resounding NO. There's no single area that any reasonable Jets fan could look at and say, "This is an area that got better as a direct result of adding Lee". The fact is the Jets fell off the deep end after adding Lee. There linebacking got statistically worse as did the entire defense as a whole. The team fell right into the toilet to the tune of 5-11. The Jets are once again laughingstocks ans it's been some almost 50 years now since the Jets have won the SB. It's totally irrelevant whether he was taken right where some draftnik thought he should have been taken at or not. When your team falls to joke status that is a direct reflection of he GM and his poor choices. Mac's job description is as follows... To make the NYJ a consistently and progressively better team until they win the SB. This is to be done while sufficiently mitigating all of losses the team may suffer through as a result of FA or retirement, injury. Adding an undersized LB did NOTHING to help the NYJ win games in 2016. Like I have made it so abundantly clear already, the Jets could have gotten 73 tackles and a sack from a guy making league minimum. Instead, the team fell to bottom feeder status, just like they were in 2014, two years after making huge changes to the front office this team was EXPECTED to be in the playoffs in 2016. Instead, they are right back where they started from. What's even worse is that the Jets currently have a horrble team. That is in need of major overhaul all over the roster in order to even so much as compete in 2017. This MUST be done while the Jets are 31st in the league in regards to cap space. A team that is as bad as the Jets are right now with seemingly no hope for 2017? That is a direct reflection of an incompetent GM and HC.
Who said I wasn't taking into account all of his picks? I have considered his entire body of works and it all around SUCKS. The Jets have acquired two Lb through free agency and drafted 3 others in two seasons. Not a single acquisition via FA or the draft is worthy of starting for almost any other teams besides the very worst teams in the league. For crying out loud, the overhaul of the linebacking crew is so fucking bad the HC still has a DT playing stand up linebacker. He objective truth is if not for Leonard Williams falling in Mac's lap, every single pick he's made would be almost as bad as John Idzik's. And I'm telling you right now, Darron Lee is just another garbage pick in a long line of garbage picks that bad Jets GM's have been making for years. He will never a linebacker in his league. His only hope is to play Safety.
