w/ all the pick 6's, fumble returns and STs TDs allowed that ahs actually saved the D from more plays, right? I remember the big excuse after the Den game was the D was tired from being on the field all night. Prior to that last drive the Jets O had the ball for 31 minutes, Den had it for 23 minutes but the D was exhausted from being on the field for 23 minutes.:lol: The D did give up 10 pts in the loss, they were also given a late lead and a team w/ a QB that can't throw from his 5 yd line. A big time D is not allowing Tebow to go 95 yds in the final minutes. The O had one real miscue on what appears to have been a blown call, they also got 3 of those pts back right away. if the D wasn't pushed around all 1st half and if they didn't allow Pitt to tun out the clock we may have been SB bound. Let's look at the blown leads and the "extra possession": 2009: at Miami: O gave D 3 different leads. NYJ had 9 legit possessions, Mia 9. O scores TD on 80 yd drive to go up 3 w/ 5 mins left, D allows Miami to go 70 yds and leaves us no time. vs. Jax: jax had 9 legit possessions, NYJ had 8. O goes 77 yds to score TD to give us 1 pt lead w/ 5 mins left, D allows jax to go 83 yds and gives us no time to come back. vs. Atl: NYJ 11 possessions, Atl 11 possessions. Up 4 we punted to Atl, they took over on their 27 and proceeded to go on a TD drive to blow the game. 2010: at Cle: despite having TOp in our favor by a whopping 20 minutes the D still blew it to the legendary Colt McCoy. NYJ 12 possessions, Cle 12 possessions. we kick FG to go up by a TD w/ 2:45 to play, D allows TD drive to send game to OT. vs. Hou: Hou 12 possessions, NYJ 13. D blows 23-7 4th qtr lead, O rescues them w/ miraculous drive to win it. at Indy(WC game): NYJ 9 poss, Ind 8. Up 1 we punt to Indy, Indy gets ball at their 20 w/ 2 1/2 to play, they allow FG. great return sets up O and Sanchez and we win late. Do I need to go on?
How many great Ds blow as many leads as our D? how many don't show up in biggest games of the year? how many allow an opponent to run out the clock w/ 3 mins left?
Honestly, probably a lot Junc. We just watch Jets games more closely than any other team but if you went through Baltimore, San Fran, Pittsburgh, etc.. on a game by game, play by play basis and as critical as you've been on the Jets D, you'd probably find as many if not more scenarios like that. The league is heavily offensive now. This isn't the 1980s anymore... or even the early 2000s.
I am sure they do from time to time but many times a year? if Bal's D allows Den to run out the clock Bal doesn't go to and win the SB last year.
No one has ever said the defense NEVER made mistakes, but It has been said, and correctly so, that if the offense had even been average it would usually have been a moot point. If you want to get in to a case by case basis argument using small cherry picked example I promise you that's a fight you don't want. Because for every cherry picked example you can provide I can go in and cherry pick 3-4 that make the offense look even more feeble. But Junc, and here's what you never understand, if you leave a defense with no room for error they are going to lose some games on last drives, it's just a fact of life. But the over all numbers don't lie Junc, no matter how much you cherry pick information to skew it in tabloid TV sound bite style through editing and misrepresentation. But there is one fact I omitted, because I knew you couldn't resist jumping in here. In 2011 the defense defended against the most drives of any team in the NFL.. That's been posted, what I didn't post was that they had the 16th fewest defensive snaps...what does that mean Junc? I'll give you a minute to think about it. It means the Defense was getting the ball back very quickly in most cases. time on the field is still time on the field, extra drives are extra drives. and the fact the Jets were a run first team the previous 4 years adds to time of possession, but here's the reality Junc, the Jets offense, and I know I said I wouldn't address the offense in this thread except as it relates directly to the defense being on the field, but this does so I guess I'll say it here. The Jets offense in each and every season has been among the worst at 3 and outs, and among the worst at having drives lasting 5 minutes or more. so yes, the Jets were winning to time of possession battle in a lot of games, but only because the defense was usually getting the ball back pretty quickly, but they were getting little rest between defensive series. It's not always the total time on the field that determines a defenses fatigue level, but how much recovery time they have between series. It adds up, and it adds up over a season as more series on the field, more defensive snaps=more injuries, even if they're not injuries that take a player off the field their the nicks, cuts, bruises, slight sprains, etc that degrade a defenses performance over the course of a game. For someone who claims to understand the game you clearly don't see anything but the small pictures that form "Reality" in your mind. It's kind of like the ant that stands on top of a beachball and thinks that's the whole world but is missing the larger picture. Hell, if I cherry pick games carefully enough I'd bet I could even make Kellen look like a good QB...it'd be wrong and misleading but I bet I could do it.
In many of those games our O scored more than enough to win, the D had no room for error b/c they kept allowing points. Yeah the Atl '09 or Den '10 examples they didn't have much room but those were 2 games a big time D would finish off. How did the D defend against the most drives when we had a million TD returns from the O? can you post some links on that please? average TOP: 2009: NYJ 32:07 Opp28:38 2010: NYJ 32:37 Opp 28:26 2011: NYJ30:49 Opp 29:11 2012: NYJ 30:26 Opp 30:35 Nothing outrageous either way. You posted about extra possessions, I simply showed that to be incorrect. Instead of acknowledging it and moving on you choose to attack the person that is right. That is on you. Let's see you make Clemens look like a good QB? Speaking of that, did you know that on thos board in the offseason of 2008 I was told how good Kellen Clemens was and how much better than Chad he was? True story. Those arguments remind me a lot of these arguments.
ALL defenses blow leads. The difference is, most have an offense capable of putting points on the board after the D forces a 3 and out or a short field situation. You can't look at it like that. When the defense holds the opposing team to 13-17 points, they have done their job. You can't blame them because the offense can't score enough and turns it over out the wazoo. The Broncos game is a prime example. The defense played great and forced 3 and outs all game. Unfortunately our offense did nothing but 3 and outs. Even great defenses get scored on. Besides we all know that the biggest weakness of our D was stopping the run. I believe this year will be different.
All D's blow leads from time to time but not like our D. Big time Ds don't blow 2-3-4 leads LATE per year. Great Ds get scored on, we never had a great D. Great D's don't get run all over in a title game, great D's do not consistently blow late leads.
Interesting you mention that, because you sound like the Kellen crown right now But seriously, again you missed the point Junc. Jet offense, among the leagues worst in 5 minute or longer drives Jets offense among the worst in 3 and outs. Jets offense among the worst in scoring efficiency. Jets offense among the league leaders in turnovers jets defense, among the top 10 best teams in preventing 3rd down conversions, often top 5. Jets defense among the top 10 in number of drives defended against, top 5 twice. Jets defense among the top 11 in preventing opposing teams from scoring on any given drive, top 5 in 2 of the 4 years. translation the jets defense got the ball back quickly enough often enough to counterbalance time of possession. It does not change the fact that the offense was repeatedly putting the Defense on the field on average 1.5 extra times a game. That adds up over a season. But yeah junc, whatever... your argument is foolish, and you know it. And if you don't know it I'd suggest getting professional help.
why do I bother? Let's look at the blown leads and the "extra possession": 2009: at Miami: O gave D 3 different leads. NYJ had 9 legit possessions, Mia 9. O scores TD on 80 yd drive to go up 3 w/ 5 mins left, D allows Miami to go 70 yds and leaves us no time. vs. Jax: jax had 9 legit possessions, NYJ had 8. O goes 77 yds to score TD to give us 1 pt lead w/ 5 mins left, D allows jax to go 83 yds and gives us no time to come back. vs. Atl: NYJ 11 possessions, Atl 11 possessions. Up 4 we punted to Atl, they took over on their 27 and proceeded to go on a TD drive to blow the game. 2010: at Cle: despite having TOp in our favor by a whopping 20 minutes the D still blew it to the legendary Colt McCoy. NYJ 12 possessions, Cle 12 possessions. we kick FG to go up by a TD w/ 2:45 to play, D allows TD drive to send game to OT. vs. Hou: Hou 12 possessions, NYJ 13. D blows 23-7 4th qtr lead, O rescues them w/ miraculous drive to win it. at Indy(WC game): NYJ 9 poss, Ind 8. Up 1 we punt to Indy, Indy gets ball at their 20 w/ 2 1/2 to play, they allow FG. great return sets up O and Sanchez and we win late. Do I need to go on?
I have come to realize that no matter what the intention of the original poster any and all threads that relate to the jets play in any regard must devolve in to a Sanchez thread. Might as well have two threads, a Sanchez thread and a lets talk about anything other than the Jets thread.
There you go cherry picking information to try to make a point. Hint the more you have to cherry pick your information, the more specialized you have to make your argument limiting it only to certain plays then the more invalid the argument becomes. Again, I can go back and find a game or two where I can make Kellen look like a stud QB. or I can go cherry pick a couple games to make the 85 bears defense, one of the all time greats, look bad...after all the Bears didn't go undefeated. but Junc, your arguments, I don't know what pixiedust you smoke, but I suggest treatment...seriously... I mean seriously, your cracked.
Weren't you the one that brought up the offense? Where exactly is the cherry picking? we were discussing blown late leads, these are all of them through the first 2 seasons under Rex. Do you want me to go in 2011 and 2012 too? I am sure the info will be similar. Just b/c you don't like it doesn't mean they are cherry picked. AGAIN, you brought up a point then I debunked it which is usually what happens in our debates.
Your intention was to create the illusion of discussing how good the defense is by bashing the offense and turnovers. And the person most responsible for them It's ok, the Sanchez sucks thread is really way too long, we can all play along with your fiction here. _
Just watch the Jets Steelers AFCCG pretty much the Jets D in a nutshell under Rex. Great at times but when you truly need them the most they falter. All we needed was one 3rd down stop...
No, what happens in our "debates", referring to this in only it's most base tabloid form of the word, is you shift the goal posts, move the argument, misrepresent information, provide isolated instances which seem when looked at only as the small picture and not the larger true picture, to be true. those limited examples which seem to prove your point, only through misrepresentation and selective picking, do not change the fact that the Jets defense has ALWAYS been on the field for more drives than any team in the NFL in 2011, and more than 20-25 of the teams in the other seasons, save 2009 where they ranked at the 18th least number of drives against them. And here's where the numbers don't lie Junc. never worse than #10 in preventing points in terms of percentage of drives, for every game they allowed more than that percent there were an equal number of games where they allowed less than that percent. That doesn't change no matter how you cherry pick your information. So by providing cases that appear to show the jets with equal plays, your actually pointing out that in other games they were even further in the hole in terms of possessions in a game. Which only further weakens your overall argument, because in the end the numbers have to add up. No one has called the Jets defense one of the best of all time, I haven't, but over the past 4 years, no matter how your try to cut it, hide it, or misrepresent it, it's been a top 10 defense each and every year and a top 5 unit in two of them. Argue and try to point out exceptions which seem to say different, but in the end the numbers don't lie in the larger picture. Junc you can cay the sky is pink, and maybe in your world it is, but no matter how often you say it's pink it's still blue....
