Have optimism but also don't expect much in 2021

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by AJW, Jul 23, 2021.

  1. barfolomew

    barfolomew Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the take on the panthers. I don't know much about them other than sam and robby are there. Weak o line? We can push any sub average oline off the ball. Hopefully we hit sam a bit and grab a win
     
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  2. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I'm only going to respond to the bold.

    You have got to be kidding!!! This team is WAY more talented than anyone had a right to expect in one offseason. The amount of talent that JD added this offseason is incredible. I can't think of another team in NFL history that added the talent this team did this season. I don't know what you were expecting, but it wasn't reasonable or realistic. He added not 1, not 2, but 3 pass rushers in FA (Lawson, Curry & Raskins) and another DE who is very solid against the run (Blair). He added our #1 WR in Davis. He added probably our starting TE in Kroft. He added an experienced, quality RB that knows the offense and who is a dual threat and an excellent pass blocker in Coleman. He added a LB with sideline to sideline speed, coverage ability and blitzing ability in Davis and a very good FS in Joyner. He added the second or first most talented QB in the draft class who is a perfect scheme fit. He added the best IOL in the draft. He added one of the top 2-3 WRs in the draft. He added perhaps the steal of the draft in Nasirildeen in the 6th round. He adedd a slew of fast, very athletic and talented DBs to the team.

    Bart Scott and Damien Wood are speaking in glowing positives about the talent on this team. One NFL AFC GM said that the Jets should be the surprise team in the NFL this season because they added so much talent.

    Your perception of things is totally skewed imo.
     
    #82 NCJetsfan, Jul 27, 2021
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2021
  3. barfolomew

    barfolomew Well-Known Member

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    Amen brother!
     
  4. Cman68

    Cman68 The Dark Admin, 2018 BEST Darksider Poster

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    So, JP is NOT a QB Whisperer then.. Read someplace that he was. Maybe that info is dated.
     
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  5. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I've seen him referred to as a QB Whisperer, but he certainly didn't help Sam. He has worked with other QBs like Patrick Mahomes, Deshaun Watson, Josh Allen, Joe Burrow, Kyle Allen, and Bo Nix, and obviously, most of them are very good. How much was Palmer and how much was those QBs may be debatable. Perhaps in Sam's case, no one could have helped him, so I may have been unfair to Palmer. John Beck has seemed to have had great success with Zach, and that is the main reason I would want to hire him.

    Beck has worked with Drew Brees, Matt Ryan, Matthew Stafford, Dak Prescott, Jameis Winston, and Jared Goff. How much was them and how much was Beck may be debatable as well, but with all things being equal, I'd rather stick with what has worked for Zach to date, and avoid what didn't work with Sam.
     
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  6. Footballgod214

    Footballgod214 Well-Known Member

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    JD and Saleh will be walking a fine line.

    On one hand they want the fans to see a talented team that's improving and growing all season.

    On the other hand, they can't win more than 2 games. The 2022 draft is THAT important to finishing what JD has started. Those 5 premium draft picks, if JD is drafting early and often, could literally catapult the Jets to the top of the NFL.
     
  7. abyzmul

    abyzmul R.J. MacReady, 2018 Funniest Member Award Winner

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    I'd like to see a video of that. I bet it would go viral.
     
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  8. MoWilkBeast

    MoWilkBeast Well-Known Member

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    Quite funny that this is exactly the opposite of Gase's approach with Darnold, where he didn't even want a proper QB coach on board to dilute his 'message'.

    I do think it will be a big loss for ZW in particular.
     
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  9. Bellys Lies

    Bellys Lies Well-Known Member

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    We are also playing in one of the toughest divisions in football. The Bills are stacked , the phins won 10 games and added a ton of talent through the draft. Tua seems to be lighting it up now that he is healthy and you have Belly and the Pats 3 wins against our afc east teams would be big. Right now 1 win in the division is about right. We have a good coach now , however our whole division has good coaches , who are ahead of us . JD played this wrong
     
  10. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    JD should have hired an established coach and acquired an established QB. He didn't have to acquire a topflight QB for this year. He could have made a Parcells-type move and gotten a vet to fill for a year or two as everybody else got up to speed.

    Instead he hired a marketable enthusiasm-building coach with no HC experience and he drafted a one year wonder QB out of probably the weirdest college football season in history.

    We're the Jets because we keep doing stupid shit like this.
     
  11. K'OB

    K'OB 2021 TGG Fantasy Football Champ

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    fuck me, go and take a break Br4d, you most certainly need one.
     
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  12. Cman68

    Cman68 The Dark Admin, 2018 BEST Darksider Poster

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    Anything better than 2-14 works for me. I don't expect much but nothing should look remotely like the Gase/Johnson Jets of 2020.
     
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  13. Br4d

    Br4d 2018 Weeb Ewbank Award

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    The purpose of online forums is both to praise and rant.

    My suggestion is that you let me do the thing I believe appropriate while you do the thing you feel is appropriate.

    In other words feel free to rant about me while I rant about the Jets. However don't believe that I am any less entitled to my view than you are to yours. :)
     
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  14. SmashMouth

    SmashMouth Active Member

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    Heading into 2009 our fan base wasn't expecting much either with a rookie quarterback. I'm A+ fired up for 2021 and expecting a 1997 type of turnaround (until proven otherwise).
     
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  15. K'OB

    K'OB 2021 TGG Fantasy Football Champ

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    I never once said you weren't entitled to post your view, but that post was utterly ridiculous and deserved to be called out for what it was and I don't believe for one second that your post was a rant to begin with.
     
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  16. SmashMouth

    SmashMouth Active Member

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    Who were the "established" head coaches that were available in whom you're referring to? And who are the established veteran career backup QBs that you're referring to?

    Because every single (great) head coach at one point of their careers were once considered rookies with zero head coaching experience. And that 1 year wonder (Zach Wilson) just posted the 6th highest NCAA QB Rating of All-Time so if he's considered a one year wonder he's one the greatest who's ever done it (on an NCAA playing field).

    Can you please provide me with your top 5 list of available head coaches and another top 5 list of available veteran backup QBs who Joe Douglas should've hired as HC and starting QB? Because if not you're saying nothing but a lot of nothingness...
     
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  17. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    Excellent response. I'll be interested to see if he comes up with a list, and if so, who is on it.

    Over the years, there have been some Jets fans that constantly bemoan the Jets' so often hiring first time HCs (who then fail miserably), rather than "established" HCs. The problem with that is there is rarely, if ever, a quality "established" NFL HC availble. If they're good, they stay employed, If they don't stay employed, they aren't very good, and they're called "retreads" for a reason. If no good "retread" is available, then one is forced to choose between a collegiate HC or an NFL Coordinator or position coach. I have been among those in the past who were upset that we kept hiring first-time HCs who had to learn on the job, and there's no doubt that our track record with 1st time HCs has been pretty horrendous. But one can only hire who is available and interested. IMO with Matt Campbell of Iowa St. not interested, that only left NFL Coordinators. I preferred an OC like Brian Daboll, but the consensus best HC candidate available was Robert Saleh, and at this point, I think it was the right choice for the Jets and am very happy with his hire.

    According to the following article, the Jets had 8 candidates in mind initially. https://thejetpress.com/2021/01/03/ny-jets-targeting-8-head-coach/
    Only 1 of them, Jim Harbaugh, had been an NFL HC and was a collegiate HC. Two others, Matt Campbell and Dan Mullen were collegiate HCs. Campbell said he had no interest in the Jets' job. I didn't think Mullen was good enough, and had no interest in Harbaugh. The other candidates were E. Bieniemy, A. Smith, M. Eberflus, , B. Staley, and D. Martindale. Some here wanted Univ. of Minnesota HC PJ Fleck, but I don't remember if he ruled himself out or if the Jets never considered him.

    I remember Mike McCarthy being available a year or two ago, but he hasn't exactly been successful in Dallas, and wasn't that successful in GB with one of the greatest QBs of all time. The Jets' record with hiring "established" HCs hasn't exactly been great, either. Since they became the Jets, Weeb and Parcells were the only two quality ones we've hired. They've also had the likes of Lou Holtz, Rich Kotite, and Adam Gase, who if not the worst 3 HCs in Jets history, are certainly among them.

    Just as one can't manufacture players one needs that aren't available in FA or the draft, one can't manufacture "established" HCs either.

    In terms of veteran QBs that were availble in FA Ryan Fitzpatrick, Andy Dalton, Tyrod Taylor, and Jameis Winston were the top ones available. I doubt too many Jets fans would have been happy with bringing any of those 4 in, and they signed early, before the Jets had decided upon which QB they liked the best in the draft. Perhaps the best one the Jets could have signed was CJ Beathard, because he knew the system, but he wasn't that experienced and if LaFleur and Saleh didn't want him, how much could he have helped Zach?

    I'll bet he can't come up with a list of 5 "establised" HCs and 5 veteran QBs that would have been better than what we have. We could still wind up adding Foles, and Morgan or White could prove to be a worthy backup.
     
    #97 NCJetsfan, Aug 1, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 4, 2021
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  18. SmashMouth

    SmashMouth Active Member

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    I highly doubt he does because most fans come up with blank statements with no insight into backing up their hot takes. He'll mention "established" Head Coaches and "veteran" Quarterbacks but yet no mention of the one's he's referring to? That's the definition of a 'hot take' and the complete opposite of talking Football (while GM bashing).

    I hope he does make a list of his favorite HCs/QBs too because it'll be easy to nitpick all of their failures.
     
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  19. ouchy

    ouchy Well-Known Member

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    I remember being pretty fired up in 2009, and only the playoffs weren't disappointing. In 2009 we finished with the same record as 2008 at 9-7. There was no turnaround record wise.

    In 2015, with a rookie HC we went 10-6 after a 4-12 season.
    IN 2006, with a rookie HC, we went 10-6 after a 4-12 season.
    Even after hiring Gase we went 7-9 after a 4-12 season.

    In that light, people expecting 6-11 / 7-10 is not a big turnaround from just two seasons ago.
     
  20. Linebacker712

    Linebacker712 Well-Known Member

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    I think the record is going to be less important than the overall quality of play and the coaching. In Mangini, Bowles, and Gase's first year, there were huge red flags despite overall respectable win/loss records: Poor planning and preparation for games, overly conservative playcalling, inability to make in game adjustments, poor clock management, lack of development in young players, and most of the wins in those years were against weak teams. Each year we hoped it was just rebuilding pains, but things just never improved.

    If this team goes 7-10 or 8-9 but is beating good teams, is consistently hard to put away, and our rookies are showing the signs of being stars, the results of this year are not as important, because it means next year, barring injuries, really could be something great.
     

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