The average of 7 different QBs numbers, compared against 1 true set of numbers? How is that usefull information, how is that not misleading? With that resoning I could compile the MPG's between a bunch of different vehicles and make it seem like a Corrola gets the same gas mileage as an F150
I 2nd that..I was disappointed in TT's play overall...made some good throws but did not look very good overall running the conventional drop-back offense. However, I realize that's not what they would be asking him to run in a real game, be it situational duty or even full time starter in the event Sanchez is knocked out of the game.
I totally agree... this preseason has been rough but I believe its been a good learning experience for Tebow... Doing what he's not good at. oh.... banned..... ok then....
Really? because there's a whole thread "revisited" in which Tebow's failures this preseason have been blamed on Sparano, the Offensive Line, Sanchez, etc. etc. Then there's this thread, which by some muddled degree is supposed to prove something to people who watch him play and realize he's not an NFL QB...questionable timing. The main point I'm trying to make is that You guys would go along way towards not being seen as pathetic "teboys" if you drop the "hater" thing. There is not some huge conspiracy against Tim Tebow in the NFL or on here. There are not "haters". Some people might not like the acquisition or question Tebow's abilities, but every player gets that, especially on message boards.. What every player (especially average NFL players) doesn't have is a legion of followers that take every criticism to heart. That label people "haters". That have to start a thread everyday about why he's good, and why people shouldn't criticize. When the NYJ acquired Brett Favre, this message board got a great deal of his followers. Although they were annoying because they didn't care about the Jets, just him, they didn't feel the need to cry foul everytime people criticized him. They didn't claim that people had something against him. They didn't suggest that Jets fans would hate a player on their team so much that they wish for him to fail consistently.They didn't bring up his past NFL stats or his lifestyle or his college/high school histories to somehow prove it to Jets fans that he was awesome. And with Brett Favre they certainly could have because he was a much better player than Tim Tebow. Honestly, the "haters" you guys describe probably hate you guys more than Tim Tebow. I think if you realized you guys don't have to cry and defend him all the time that people would stop bashing him and you guys on here.. Just wait until a monday after Tebow has a poor game if you think this is hating. People vent about their team and its players on message boards - grow up. Really, the majority of Jets fans come in these threads to talk shit about Tebow because of you guys primarily, not so much as because they "hate" Tebow. They hate you and his followers. People will pick their choice of QB in this situation but at the end of the day the Jets fan just wants to win football games. If by some chance Tebow is the guy to do it for them than people will probably warm up to him, but along the way those same people are allowed to criticize and don't need to get Tebow shoved in their face by crybabies that can't stand it if people find something they dont like about him.
Sure there are. There are folks who have questioned is sexuality. There are folks who followed him from the Broncos board to insult his beliefs. Those, my friend, are haters.
and you missed point completely. all of those people do so because of you guys. To get under your whiny skins.. not really because of Tim Tebow. Stop crying a little while and maybe those people you describe would stop continuing to mess with you.
Those stats paint a very telling picture. I think you were as fair as possible to Sanchez while even being slightly unfair to Tebow for the reasons you mentioned. Because their situations were different, the stats will always have to be cherry-picked to some extent, but in this case the way they were picked clearly benefit Sanchez. I would say that what it shows is not necessarily negative on Sanchez, but rather that completion % is only one stat, and not as meaningful as some would think. Shaq had the best answer to his critics who said he couldn't shoot the jumper. "Why shoot a jumper when I can dunk?"
Not sure who "you guys" are. No one's messed with me. Nor have you offered any rebuttal that those folks I described are haters. You're just making excuses as to why they are. If someone feels compelled to slam Tebow's religion or sexuality because of his fans, they've got the problem, not Tebow and not me.
Actually, it's a perfectly reasonable thing to do. Taking the avg of 7 guys seen as being amongst the "better" QBs establishes a generic baseline if you will. Then, one compares Tebow's stats against that average and you see that his numbers are in the same ballpark. This kind of thing is done every single day and is quite normal and acceptable. When someone talks about "total offense", for example, you have to have something to compare it to, like league average.
You'll start to get reasonable when you compare him against the whole crowd of NFL QBs. Then you still have the responsibility of proving why those stats matter and what conclusions you can draw from them. Statistics are not evidence by themselves. You can cherry pick and cut statistics any way you want to come to whatever conclusion you would like. Any statistics-based argument really comes down to why you chose the stats you did and how you inferred your conclusion from it. Tebow fans play fast and loose with creating statistical comparisons and only those strongly in favor of Tebow. However, the argument is sort of left open that because Tebow looks good on paper for certain stats that it means he is superior. You're ignoring the actual inference you're making and you're barely making a conclusion. It's kind of like you're filling in all your arguments with, "he just knows how to win" rather than making an actual reason-based argument.
Statistically speaking, it looks valid. I guess the next step in the analysis is to view progress and development. Since those games you chose in your sample, Sanchez has improved, and by most accounts is showing progress this Offseason while Tebow appears to be regressing (i.e. he still has mechanical flaws, he's still locking onto targets, he's still holding the ball too long etc) and making bad throws - according to you guys who've watched him forever - that he hasn't made in the past.
There's no way to show progress because these stats are Tim's full body of work. Sanchez has had a whole season from the end of these stats and now and Tebow has had ZERO starts since. The only way to see if Tebow has or will progress through these numbers are if he starts again, which most likely won't happen any time soon.
That Sanchez is the starter and Tebow is the backup? What are you looking for here? I'm not trying to debate common knowledge, just the perception that Tebow sucks.
I am not calling you out becaue I feel you are a very levelheaded and fair poster, however I don't think judging performance on 35 throws in the preseason is enough to give a trend. Sanchez did improve some after the starts that were mentioned, but still had some pretty big holes in his game too. That is why this is the year many think he will turn it on.(Sanchez has looked pretty good so far this year, but again 35 passes preseason )
Actually, if would depend on what "crowd" of NFL QBs you used. If you threw in a bunch of 1 and done QBs who were out of the league a year or 2 later, it might actually lower the "avg" numbers a bit. What was inferred from the Stats was that most young QBs don't put up earth shattering statistics and that Tebow's stats are on par with what other young QBs have done in their first X starts. Actually, for most of us, it's not about trying to show that Tebow is "superior". For example, I have made many posts comparing Tebow's first 16 starts to those of Sanchez. This isn't to show that Tebow is better than Sanchez. But rather, to show that through his first 16 starts, Tebow's numbers were similar to what Sanchez did in his first year as well. The reason for even putting up these stats is because of the highly inflammatory statements that many people put forth, such as saying "Tebow is the worst QB ever", or "Tebow will never be an NFL QB". It's especially funny here on a Jets forum. When discussing Sanchez, people will bring up Eli Mannings stats from his first years in the league. They will then compare Sanchez's stats and say how they are right in line with where Eli was. What's the purpose ? Well, Eli is now seen as one of the best QBs in the league. Top 5 or 6 to be sure. BUT, he wasn't viewed that way in his first 3 years in the NFL. The logic behind the argument is simple and straight forward. It is also uncontrovertable. MOST QBs come into the league and put up so/so stats their first couple of seasons, while they get their feet under them and really learn the NFL game. They get a little better with each year that goes by and they GROW into being a great NFL QB. Of course, this doesn't predict the future. There's no guarantee that Sanchez will follow Eli's development path and career trajectory. Perhaps he has reached his plateau, or maybe he's been beaten/broken and will never get over it (Carr ?). Or maybe, just maybe, he'll take that next step and become great. Same argument applies for Tebow. He's only had 16 starts and there were more questions about him, problems to fix. He's put up comparable stats to many "good" QBs in their first 16 starts. It's reasonable to believe that he can improve year to year just as they did.
