I also like Palmer more, but Manning has won some playoff games. We still have yet to see Palmer on the road in the playoffs.
I'll assume that your second paragraph is tongue in cheek. I disagree completely with the first one. Manning's 2004 was not arguably better than Palmer's 2005; it was overwhelmingly better. Here are Manning's career stats: Year Team G GS Att Comp Pct Yds YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate 1998 Indianapolis Colts 16 16 575 326 56.7 3739 6.50 78 26 28 22/109 42 8 71.2 1999 Indianapolis Colts 16 16 533 331 62.1 4135 7.76 80 26 15 14/116 56 11 90.7 2000 Indianapolis Colts 16 16 571 357 62.5 4413 7.73 78 33 15 20/131 51 8 94.7 2001 Indianapolis Colts 16 16 547 343 62.7 4131 7.55 86 26 23 29/232 55 11 84.1 2002 Indianapolis Colts 16 16 591 392 66.3 4200 7.11 69 27 19 23/145 51 11 88.8 2003 Indianapolis Colts 16 16 566 379 67.0 4267 7.54 79 29 10 18/107 45 9 99.0 2004 Indianapolis Colts 16 16 497 336 67.6 4557 9.17 80 49 10 13/101 68 13 121.1 2005 Indianapolis Colts 16 16 453 305 67.3 3747 8.27 80 28 10 17/81 45 6 104.1 Here are Palmer's: Year Team G GS Att Comp Pct Yds YPA Lg TD Int Tkld 20+ 40+ Rate 2003 Cincinnati Bengals 0 0 0 0 --- 0 --- 0 0 0 0/0 0 0 --- 2004 Cincinnati Bengals 13 13 432 263 60.9 2897 6.71 76 18 18 25/178 34 8 77.3 2005 Cincinnati Bengals 16 16 509 345 67.8 3836 7.54 70 32 12 19/105 43 9 101.1 Manning's 1999, 2000, 2003, and 2005 are all comparable to Palmer's 2005 (as noted above, his 2004 is far better). The fact that he's done it repeatedly, not just once, makes the comparison overwhelming. Are we really debating the regular season careers of these two players? And for all of Manning's struggles in the postseason, here are his actual game stats: Year Opp Result | CMP ATT PYD PTD INT | RSH YD TD ---------------------+--------------------------+----------------- 1999 ten L,16-19 | 19 43 227 0 0 | 2 22 1 2000 mia L,17-23 | 17 32 194 1 0 | 1 -2 0 2002 nyj L,0-41 | 14 31 137 0 2 | 1 2 0 2003 den W,41-10 | 22 26 377 5 0 | 1 0 0 2003 kan W,38-31 | 22 30 304 3 0 | 1 -1 0 2003 nwe L,14-24 | 23 47 237 1 4 | 2 4 0 2004 den W,49-24 | 27 33 457 4 1 | 1 1 1 2004 nwe L,3-20 | 27 42 238 0 1 | 1 6 0 2005 pit L,18-21 | 22 38 290 1 0 | 0 0 0 ---------------------+--------------------------+----------------- TOTAL | 193 322 2461 15 8 | 10 32 2 His record is 3-6, and that's nowhere near good enough. However, he also has a 2:1 TD:INT ratio, has a 60% completion percentage, and a 7.64 YPA average. He's had 3 incredibly superb playoff games, and in 4 of the 6 playoff games he's lost, the team he lost to won at least one more postseason game that year (showing that they were, in fact, very good teams). And his 2003 game against Denver, by itself, is orders of magnitude better than the single pass Palmer threw last year. If I was starting a team today I'd take Palmer, not Manning - he's younger and he has tremendous potential. That being said, Manning has had a better career by far to this point, has shown no signs of declining, and we really don't have the slightest idea how Palmer will end up doing in the postseason. Putting Palmer up there with Brady right now is IMO unreasonable.
Culpepper just lost what Randall Cunningham, Jeff George, and Gus Frerotte "found" when they were in Minnesota. Now he's basically a mobile Vinny Testaverde. -X-
If by sucking the past few years, I geuss you're omitting the 39 touchdown season he had two years ago......?
Palmer doesn't have enough playoff experience to be compared to Manning, but Manning has DREADFUL playoff numbers. Sure, he might have won some games, but in his losses...well- 3 TD's, 7 INT's- uggh... -X-
Talk about making this argument with the wrong gut.:smile: You can argue Pennington was a historically great QB in 02. I admit that the first time I saw Palmer against the Jets in 04 I would have gladly traded the entire team for him. I haven't seen that kind of ability at QB in a long time and that includes Manning. I just think with a QB like Palmer you can put put enormous pressure on a great Defense that would ultimately have a better shot at breaking down Manning or Brady. To Brady's credit no one has really done it to him yet.
I actually think Manning was a bit of a victim of his own hype early in his career, and the ineffectual, loser coaches he's been saddled with haven't done anything to help him out. We know that Manning is a great "student of the game" but that doesn't mean he should be the de facto OC while he's also playing QB. When he runs up against good coaches/defenses in the playoffs is when this comes back to bite him again and again. Last years playoff loss is probably the best example of this. For most of the game he would sit there changing the play 5 times at the line, the Steelers blitzed and Manning would zip it out to a WR that hadn't even turned around yet. Pitt for whatever reason eased up on this in the 2nd half and it almost cost them the game. This isn't even getting into when he waved the punt team that Dungy had sent on off the field. I don't think it's possible to have the perspective or even knowledge to call your own game against elite defenses in the playoffs. This also ties into his record breaking 2004 season, where the Colts passed an absurd amount of times inside the 10/5 yard lines relative to the other teams in the league. When you consider that Edge is a top back in the league it becomes even stranger. I don't have the exact numbers now, I'm trying to find the article which listed them. Unless they get a coach in Indy with some stones or at least the brains to take some of this stuff out Manning's hands I think we're going to see his struggles in the postseason continue.
I can't jump to any conclusions just yet. Last year I almost lost another Dawlpfinz bet doing just that.
The Phins won't see a Defense as good as the Steelers again until we play the Bears, and maybe the Jags and PAts. Although the PAts D didn't look like it could hold a candle to the Steelers today. I think Culpepper will settle down and do the job we expect him to. Not a Superbowl run, but a solid shot at the Palyoffs.
So much for that 6-0 finish of 2005 we had heard so much about from the Dolphins fans on this board this year.
here are a couple of great quotes from PFT in their weekly power rankings: http://www.profootballtalk.com/WeekOnePowerRankings.htm
This might make more sense if Peyton wasn't one of the most well known choke artists in all of sports.
It's a cheap shot at Daunte out of left field combined with Manning worship. Can't say it's unexpected from the clueless media, but it's still poor form. Is there any other way to read this statement other then "the Mannings are usually great in crunch time"?
Clueless? yeah the media is pretty clueless about daunte as many think he is a big time QB when he clearly is not and he did his usual at Pitt when he blew the game for the dolphins.
Was Heath Miller Daunte's coverage assignment on that 90 yard TD the Miami D gave up the first play after they had Pitt trapped deep in their own end late in the 4th quarter to give Pitt the lead?
No but they were still only 4 pts back when he threw back to back INts including 1 for a TD AND if not for Ike taylor's drop he would have thrown another EZ INT before the Miller TD.
