Grimlsey named names

Discussion in 'Baseball Forum' started by BroadwayMike, Jun 9, 2006.

  1. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2004
    Messages:
    33,828
    Likes Received:
    32,908
    Knoblauch was hitting some absolute ropes at the end of the 2001 season whether they were homeruns or not. I don't think that he took them throughout his career. He was too good of a singles hitter, and not much of a power hitter.
     
  2. GreenMachine

    Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2003
    Messages:
    12,528
    Likes Received:
    6
    It is NOT just roids!

    HGH is the major drug...
     
  3. Cakes

    Cakes Mr. Knowledge 2010

    Joined:
    May 20, 2003
    Messages:
    20,810
    Likes Received:
    232

    He did have the rage real bad circa 2000.
     
  4. GreenMachine

    Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2003
    Messages:
    12,528
    Likes Received:
    6
    So did Perdro...Just ask Zimmer...:rofl:
     
  5. FirstTimeCaller

    FirstTimeCaller Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    2,672
    Likes Received:
    3
    LOL! Yeah Pedro was raging against the short bald machine!
     
  6. Cakes

    Cakes Mr. Knowledge 2010

    Joined:
    May 20, 2003
    Messages:
    20,810
    Likes Received:
    232
    Zimmer had the rage- not Pedro.
     
  7. GreenMachine

    Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2003
    Messages:
    12,528
    Likes Received:
    6
    OK...Even when he said he wanted to pulll Babe out of the grave and plunk himn in the ass??:rofl:
     
  8. kinghenry89

    kinghenry89 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Messages:
    5,052
    Likes Received:
    0
    Knobby hit 17 homers in 1998 and 18 homers in 1999.

    Can I ask why? Clemens is notorious for having the most strict and intense workout in baseball and he also has never had any of those muscle injuries that steroids cause.
     
  9. FirstTimeCaller

    FirstTimeCaller Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    2,672
    Likes Received:
    3
    Can I ask why not? His workout partner hasn't had those same results... are we supposed to believe that in the age of Roids that Clemens is just a natural freak of nature that started getting better as he got older? I have a hard time buying that.
     
    #29 FirstTimeCaller, Jun 9, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: May 21, 2005
  10. kinghenry89

    kinghenry89 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Messages:
    5,052
    Likes Received:
    0
    Andy Pettitte did have those results. His career was falling apart in the late '90s and we almost dealt him several times before he started working out with Clemens.

    The Rocket got better because he moved from the American League to the National League and got a contract where he didn't have to do any intense traveling and got to choose exactly what he wanted to do and when he wanted to do it.
     
  11. FirstTimeCaller

    FirstTimeCaller Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    2,672
    Likes Received:
    3
    Listen, I know the deal with you... you're a Clemens fan/appologist... I'm not going to change your mind and your not going to change mine no matter what is said. The Rocket Clemens got freakishly better way before he went to Houston... I don't care how much you work out and how much your work outs are publisized what he's done, much likes Bonds is unprecedented. Am I to believe that it's all based on his workouts and no other player in the history of the game has been able to do the same thing by working out hard?

    I'm not buying that man.... this sin't all about hitting homeruns, a good % of the players busted for juice have been pitchers and I believe Clemens is one of the users.
     
  12. GreenMachine

    Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2003
    Messages:
    12,528
    Likes Received:
    6
    So if your work out partner gets hurt and you don't that means you are on the juice???
     
  13. FirstTimeCaller

    FirstTimeCaller Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    2,672
    Likes Received:
    3

    The point is... if working out hard get's you freakish results why hasn't Pettite, who works out with him and adopted the same regiment, had the same results?
     
  14. kinghenry89

    kinghenry89 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Messages:
    5,052
    Likes Received:
    0
    You can't just ignore my arguement by labeling me a "Clemens apologist" and ignoring all of my very valid points about why Clemens doens't fit the profile of a juicer. I mean, I guess you can but you shouldn't.

    I'm basically just going to give you the cliff notes in hope that you'll read them:

    -Clemens does an intense workout. The kind that somebody who uses drugs to get in shape don't, can't or won't do.

    -Pettitte did the same workout as Clemens and got similarly outstanding results.

    -Clemens does not have the muscle injuries that plague players who use steroids. He's been one of the most durable players in baseball history, not at all what you'd expect from a steroid user.

    -Clemens moved from the incredibly unforgiving AL East to the National League and signed a contract in Houston where he did not have to anything stressful at all and was able to dictate what he did and didn't do.

    -Finally (and most importantly) Clemens had everything to lose and nothing to gain by using steroids. I don't know when you accuse him of starting, but by the time he got to the Yankees his legacy was already assured. By the time he got to the Astros he was considered one of the best pitchers in history, with a ring and several records. There would be no reason to juice.

    Judge for yourself, I can't stop you. But at least look at it reasonably.
     
  15. kinghenry89

    kinghenry89 New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Messages:
    5,052
    Likes Received:
    0
    Because Pettitte isn't as good a pitcher as Clemens?

    The injuries that Pettitte has sustained aren't steroid style injuries. He hurt his elbow batting, he hasn't strained muscles and blown out knees.
     
  16. FirstTimeCaller

    FirstTimeCaller Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    2,672
    Likes Received:
    3
    I'm not saying AP did drugs I'm saying Clemens did.
     
    #36 FirstTimeCaller, Jun 10, 2006
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2006
  17. FirstTimeCaller

    FirstTimeCaller Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 20, 2004
    Messages:
    2,672
    Likes Received:
    3
    I am looking at it reasonalbly... I'm suggesting in an age of juiced out players somebody who has had supernatural results is suspect of using the juice. You don't even consider it possible, you're in full denial mode so much so that you don't even acknowledge it's possible, to me that's unreasonable.

    -With all due respect this post reads like a lawyers defense. You're arguement is essentially that Clemens can and did work out harder then anybody else in the history of the game... you say his results are based on working out. Well what the hell kind of workout is this guy doing that nobody else in the history of baseball has figured out?!?! How come nobody else in MLB started getting better again at 37/38??? Why isn't his workout partner having the same results (see this years stats)? Andy's results were not nearly as good as Clemens.

    -Not all users are plagued with injury so Clemens staying healthy doesn't say much to me. Rafael Palmeiro was also very durable throughout his career and he played everyday, not every fifth.

    -Bonds had everything to lose too... he was a guaranteed first ballot hall of famer long before he bulked up. What you're trying to do with that point is rationalize... Roger Clemens doesn't think like your average person that why he is who he is... you're trying to put your logic in his head but it simply doesn't work like that. You have no idea what type of choices he would make.
     
  18. deviljets7

    deviljets7 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2003
    Messages:
    3,536
    Likes Received:
    319
    While not neccessarily back injuries, Clemens has had more than a few leg muscle issues in recent years.

    He all of a suddent took his game to another level in his late 30's/early 40's. Who else besides for Bonds has done it.

    He has had more than a few "roid rage" type of incidents in his career.

    [​IMG]

    Maybe its me, but he seems to have also "grown" in hat size

    [​IMG]
     
  19. BadgerOnLSD

    BadgerOnLSD Banned

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2004
    Messages:
    15,188
    Likes Received:
    3
    WTF is that on the left?
     
  20. deviljets7

    deviljets7 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2003
    Messages:
    3,536
    Likes Received:
    319
    Aerosmith's Joe Perry
     

Share This Page