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Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by GasedAndConfused, Sep 27, 2019.
This post is so accurate, it hurts!
While this is undoubtedly true, one also has to take into consideration our starting OL getting almost no practice time together and no time on the field in preseason; having a new offensive system and blocking scheme; Sam having mono; Herndon, Copeland and Shepherd being suspended; Avery Williamson going on IR before the season started; Mosley, Jenkins, Q. Williams & Siemian getting injured and missing multiple games; our toughest stretch of games being early which all of the preceding events had a greater impact upon than if the toughest stretch of games was late in the season. I think that with almost any other HC most posters would have been more patient and less quick to call for the HC's firing. Before the season started, many of us were saying that in order for the Jets to make the playoffs almost everything would have to go perfectly for the Jets. Instead, almost everything has gone wrong.
I know. Which is why I'm not calling for Gase's firing yet. He deserves a chance to coach the team with Darnold and the rest of the key guys back. But my opinion is that although things will improve from where they are now, Gase will be exposed once and for all as a bad coach.
This is fair. I'm coming to that perspective as well. If you'll recall, I was very upset when Gase was hired. Then after reading comments he made and seeing some moves he had made, I backed off that stance and had some hope. I'm thankful that he got Mac fired and helped bring in Douglas. If Gase refuses to alter his system and improve his play-calling, things don't appreciably improve, and thus is exposed as a bad coach, I hope that Douglas will go ahead and fire him at the end of the season, in spite of their being friends, but I'll be surprised if that happens.
Wouldn't it be a kick in the ass if Gase's main contribution to the franchise turns out to be getting Maccagnan fired?
i guess the jets felt that Gase is a dees and dats kind of guy.
It's about the only contribution I can see him being capable of making to the franchise, aside from a Top 2 pick next April.
And if or when he gets fired we all can say. That's the way they did it in Miami...
I believe when he was the OC in Denver for two years their O ranked 1st in yards and points in 2013 and 2nd in yards and points in 2014. Apparently having talent matters.
Maybe having Peyton Manning matters most of all. Obviously one of the greatest QBs of his generation and his own on-the-field OC. It's as unfair to anoint Gase an offensive genius based on his time in Denver as it is to condemn him as a clown/fraud based on the first three games of this season. Let's see how the rest of the season plays out. I don't like what I've seen from Gase so far, and there have been plenty of red flags, but there have also been mitigating factors (Darnold's illness, Maccagnan's and Idzik's lousy drafts etc.)
Most of this board loved McCarthy based on the same thing. Manning has said over and over again that he loved Gase and he helped him after he had to change his throwing motion.
A good argument can be made that the true quality of a coach comes out under adversity. I still believe that one of the best coaching jobs I ever saw was Parcells in 1999 after Testaverde went down. Imagine going 8-8 with QBs like Tom Tupa, Rick Mirer and Ray Lucas. With a lot of coaches, that season would have ended up 3-13. My point is that with the adversity this year, especially the lack of talent, we will learn a lot about Gase - good or bad - by the end of the year.
That team was stacked and all 3 QB's who played had way more experience than Luke Falk. 8 and 8 was not a great job. That team went 1 and 6 and were completely out of contention when they went on a winning streak. It took Parcells and one of the best coaching staffs in NFL history almost 6 weeks to come up with a winning game plan after their starting QB went down.
I brought up the fact that Gase as OC, pretty much what he's doing here with our O ranked 1 and 2 in his 2 years in Denver. Everyone wants to discount that because of Payton Manning. Nobody wants to give him credit for getting 10 wins with Tannenhill and Matt Moore both of whom are B NFL QB's and losing with total scrubs.
That 99 team had some other talent in a different era of the nfl
Biggs, are you saying that Gase has done a great job with the Jets so far, or are you saying his track is good enough to give him the benefit of the doubt? If it's the latter, I don't disagree. My problem is that Gase hasn't shown anything this year with this team, but there's still time. I realize that part of the negativity towards Gase is based on the expectations of fans and the pundits that this was a team capable of making a playoff run, but even factoring in Darnold's absence, it has looked nothing like a contender. If Gase makes a 7-2 run, as Parcells did in 1999, the narrative will certainly change.
I'm not saying Gase is doing a good job or a bad job. The Jets as they are constructed which has zero to do with Gase is at best a mediocre to bad NFL team. With the guys who were counted on to start being either sick or hurt I can't judge him at all.
Reading between the lines on this board, there is a huge contingent of Jets fans who thought Gase was a bad hire based on 3 years coaching a mediocre team in Miami with crappy QB's. Mike Mcarthy should have been hired based on a zillion years with a stacked team and HOF QB's.
I view Gase as a young HC who has come up through the ranks and has had both success and failure. I have no idea if he will be good or a JAG. I'm really happy he got Mac out of here and we got a guy who has come through the ranks and may become a good GM. It's a work in progress.
The Colts last year started 1 and 5 with a very good team on both sides of the ball an A+ QB and a solid OL. I'm sure the Colts fans were pretty upset with Reich.
"Omaha!" = "OC's an idiot, here's the real play!"
yep = these days you are pretty much going to go as far as your QB will carry the team (assuming the rest of the team is at least adequate)
still depends. the eagles won with a back-up journeyman QB, broncos won with a shell of his former self peyton manning, Eli won 2 and is mediocre, flacco won one and is mediocre, and the fact brady has won 6 our of the last 18 really skews things. Brady, Eli, Ben, and Peyton won a combined 12 of the last 18 superbowls. the other 6 were flacco, foles, brees, rodgers, brad johnson, and wilson.
So if you look at the last 10 superbowl winning QBs (over an 18 year span) you have 4 elite QBs (brady, brees, rodgers, Peyton manning) 1 really good and likely HOFer but not elite in ben, 2 mediocre QBs who had long careers (eli and flacco), 2 journeymen QBs (brad johnson and nick foles), and 1 QB who isn't elite but is above average and still has another 10 years in the league in wilson.
On top of that as far as MVPs go
2018 mahomes - no SB
2017 Brady - won 6, but not this season. lost to the eagles
2016 matt ryan - no SBs
2015 Cam Newton - no SBs
2014 - Aaron Rodgers - 1 SB but not this year
2013 - peyton manning - 2 Sbs but not this season
2012 - adrian peterson - non QB
2011 - rodgers - 1 SB but not this year
So it shows that yes you need at least a medicore QB you won't win with a shitty one, but you don't need an elite QB to win a SB. you can win with a good team and good coaching and even the elite QBs aren't going to guarentee a SB
I agree with much of this, which is why I'm good with Darnold (assuming he stays healthy) as the QB. I disagree with labeling Big Ben and Eli as less than elite when they each won 2 SBs. I agree that in terms of raw statistics they might be considered less than "elite", but wining a SB, let alone 2, elevates them in my book. Further, I rate Flacco as better than "mediocre", although not elite.
I'd be curious to see what, if any, other characteristics SB teams share: great OL? great "D"?, great STs?, great HC? On this last point, is it necessary to have a great HC, or can you get by with one who's above average but be blessed with great talent? My feeling is that to have the best odds of winning a SB, you need a great HC, a great QB, a great OL, and a solid "D" - based on the current rules and how they're interpreted, giving a big edge to offense and scoring.