I also don't think McCarthy is a legitimate possibility unless he backs down on his demand for roster control, which if I remember correctly, was one of the chief reasons why he never got the job in the first place.
I'm torn on McCarthy. He has a Super Bowl win and played a part in developing Rodgers early in his career, but his offense got stale towards the end of his tenure. Maybe the chance to mold another young QB would rejuvenate him.
I don't think McCarthy is one of the best of all-time. I was referring to, A-A-Ron. Although I think McCarthy is a very good coach, at least if we are comparing what we currently have in the Jets building now. It's not bold when I'm secure with my view on it. He has won a SuperBowl. He had a 125-77-2 overall record. Was the HC for the Packers for 13 seasons. Of those 13 seasons, they went to the playoffs 9 times. So, that's not a respectable resume to you? It sure is to me, it doesn't matter a bit that it was with A-A-Ron either. That is his resume, that is his credentials, those are engraved in the history books under his name. That is a fact. Again, I love how you pick and choose to make your argument try to sound better. I'm not ignorant man. Yes, the 2008 season was impressive, and yes, I think my stance on If BB is a great HC was pretty clear in my original post. So your trip down memory lane isn't changing a thing. It's funny though because that was the year they finished 2nd in the division and missed the playoffs. BTW. FYI. Oh, he did some good things in Cleveland too, for sure, however, he also had a 36-44 overall record at the end of his tenure there. Which is a worse record than Gase had after being fired by the Phins. No, I'm not saying they are comparable, but to think BB was being touted as this amazing HC during that tenure is silly. He wasn't. Matter of fact, he made a decision to cut their QB mid-season in the final season he was with the Browns. That same QB he cut, went to the Cowboys and won a SuperBowl. That very year. See how this game works when you pick and choose? It's obvious. Want me to keep going? First year with the Patriots, they went 5-11, missing the playoffs. Only losing season BB had with the Patriots, only year he went without TB, with the exception of losing TB in 2008. McCarthy didn't have the same level of control that BB had either. Let's make sure that's understood. Even so, we are nit-picking a lot, he had a bad year in his final year with the Packers. It happens and I'm not saying he is the same caliber coach as BB either. Overall, his resume is very sound. He has wins, a SB, it's far and above better than anything we've had in a very long time. So, why that is a bad thing for anyone is beyond me? We are willing to go to bat for all these unknown coaches or failed coaches from other organizations, but we aren't willing to take a flyer on a proven coach? That's an odd stance to me. I'm now done with this silly pick and chose debate I've walked myself into. I'm walking out now. My overall stance. I would MUCH rather have McCarthy right now than, Gase. It's really that simple.
But you continue to assert he is a “very good coach” without provide any evidence that his success is attributable to his coaching rather than his quarterback. We have plenty of evidence to the contrary, including lack of success without Rodgers, underwhelming success with Rodgers, and reports of his slipping as a coach and leader. Conclusory statements of his success that don’t disaggregate his record from Rodgers doesn’t advance the discussion. Being secure of something without appropriate reason to be so is the very definition of bold. (It was also a reference to a meme, maybe google “bold strategy Cotton” to get up to speed.) It doesn’t matter even “a bit” that he had Aaron Rodgers running his offense? The side of the ball that McCarthy is supposed to be the expert in? How is context irrelevant? Really? By that logic, Gase is an offensive genius for the numbers his offensive put up in Denver is 2013, right? Because it doesn’t matter “a bit” that Peyton Manning was the QB and ran the offense, including plenty of audibles at the line? You see how this line of thinking is what gets bad coaches an unearned position? You seem to be conflating two concepts. I’m able to pick certain achievements by Belichick because they show exactly what you asked about, which was success without Brady. You aren’t able to provide analogous examples of McCarthy’s success without Rodgers because he doesn’t have the same achievements. It’s called a “counterexample,” it’s not picking and choosing. Sure, of course. Which means he has no experience running the front office while serving as head coach. Almost every time teams try that setup, it fails. Remember Chip Kelly? Giving McCarthy that level of control is more likely to look like Kelly than Belichick. His resume says one thing, “rode Aaron Rodgers’ coattails.” That’s not “very solid.” It’s not “proven.” Meanwhile, the Rams were willing to take a flyer and got McVay. Sounds like a better deal than another retread. Gase is a red herring. There are more than two options to coach an NFL franchise.
That's a loser attitude and I'll never want a loser attitude in a coach. I want the guy who says "I can do much better than those other guys and I'm ready to prove it." There's only 32 of these jobs in the world and there are plenty of people willing to step up and grab the bull by the horns.
You've said this before. The problem is the best candidates will have multiple options, and they won't take this one. You might think they have a loser attitude because they chose a lesser challenge, but nevertheless they'll be coaching some other team and laughing all the way to the win column.
Yes. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Your "best candidates" turn out to be the same guys on the merry-go-round every time. Three games into the season the last "best candidate" said this: "It's brutal, I mean it's like one of those things, it's infuriating," Gase said. "Because you're watching the defense and special teams play as hard as they can and executing what they're being asked to do, and they're doing it well a majority of the game, and then we aren't holding our end on offense." The guy is clueless! He is the offense! He is the entire team! He pays lip service to the units that have outscored his offense while doing little themselves but he really has contributed nothing in building an offense or a team. It is brutal and it is infuriating because this is what he did in Miami and it's what a bunch of people here predicted. I'm not sure what went on today but he should have been sitting in front of Chris Johnson at nine o'clock this morning with Joe Douglas across the room just to listen and take notes. Ideally Gase would have told Johnson that he didn't need to explain things to the owner because the owner didn't know shit about football. That may very well be true but it would have been good enough for Gase to be escorted off the property. Barring that long shot, however, Gase needed to project a clear understanding of all the problems, including the one in his mirror. I doubt he has the capacity, but not the arrogance. I've also said Gase won't get fired for going 0 - 16 this year but for everything that contributes to such an outcome; he's running out of time a lot quicker than I expected. There are plenty of guys out there that will take this job; maybe with Douglas aboard the right guy will be easier to find. If Douglas can't look at this objectively, he's not the right guy for that job either.
You're giving me a headache. Yet, I'll bite one more time. You're the one arguing this point. I'm simply stating that McCarthy has a good resume, it's a fact, I DON'T CARE if it was alongside of Brett Favre and A-A-Ron. HIS RESUME IS STILL BETTER THAN ANYTHING CLOSE TO WHAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE. I'm not here to debate in the direction you want to go with this. I'm here to express what I think about it all. That's it. I brought up BB as an example because he has CLEARLY had the most success BY FAR with the best of all time at that position in TB. That was the only purpose for it. I didn't intend to go on this long winded road with you. His success still far outweighs his unsuccessful moments. That's a fact, Jack. I'm secure based on the singular fact of McCarthy was a successful HC. He has a GOOD resume. It's not bold, it's a fact. I don't care about your meme. Maybe, stop assuming others care to indulge in such things with you? No, it doesn't matter because those two years as OC with Peyton Manning isn't a great resume for me, it's not impressive, and he certainly wasn't at the helm of that ship. Now was he? Does Gase have a good resume as a HC, ever? Nope. That's the difference. Again, it's picking and choosing because you went down an entire road that never was intended to be explored. This was not my initial point. You're assuming what it would look like if McCarthy had the same level of control, you don't know though, why? Simple, It never happened. So you are projecting. You can't be conclusive when you simply don't know for sure. Which is why I'm not playing that game with you. I don't even know for sure, I'm not arguing for or against, I simply know, this wasn't the same level of control or playing field between the two. McCarthy's resume does not say "I rode AR coat tails". That's just another projection, with a small sample size of examples to dispute the opposite. Again, considering his overall achievements, it's a good resume. We are done, feel free to have your last say, I'm just done wasting energy on something that really doesn't matter that much now at the end of the day. Now, does it?
I do not see any great coach passing up an opportunity to be one of 32 and I want the guy who views being in New York, and even working for this sorry organization as a higher peak to climb with higher rewards at the top.
We also have a promising young QB, a good nucleus of players albeit shallow depth and holes, and a GM with a great reputation league wide. Combine that with the opportunity to only go up, and a coach can really make a name for themselves here by improving a team that's primed to improve.
To Ralebird and BTQ: How many "great" HC candidates came looking last year? I'll grant McCarthy maybe, but who else? That said, I do agree that a lot more coaches would be interested in the job than many here believe because there are only 32 of these jobs in the world. So I'm all for cutting bait right now and firing Gase. I'm firm in my belief that if he lasts the season it's ONLY because the Johnsons are too afraid to do something as bold as fire him during the season. He's shown nothing, not in Miami, and not here, and it's not because of lack of talent or injuries, it's because they way he runs the offense - it's offensive, as in the olfactory sense.
I think the better question is "how many great HC candidates refused to consider the job?" I maintain the answer is zero.
But why do you not care? Do you not think it impacts a coach's record when he has hall of famers calling the plays and throwing the ball? It seems willfully ignorant to ignore the context. How do you know he will be successful without Rodgers saving his bacon? That's the whole conversation. The rest are side argument. How can you be so confident in his future success if his past accomplishments are tainted by circumstance? Again, the comparison isn't to Gase. Red herring (that means a distraction that isn't actually germain to the discussion). This is not a binary choice. Oh, sorry, I thought this was a discussion board, I didn't realize it was an expression board But the Belichick discussion was germane to show a counterexample. One way we know he would have success without Brady is past success without Brady. Something that isn't true for McCarthy without Rodger. That was the purpose. Robert Horry has 7 rings. More than Michael Jordan! That's a fact, Jack! See how it works when you remove context? But, again, why? Why does his success being linked to all time quarterback play not matter at all to you? That seems bonkers. It's not my meme. It's from the movie Dodgeball: A True Underdog Story. It is a very popular meme and a staple of modern discourse. He was at the helm of the offense, yes. So why isn't his record breaking success a good resume? But he was initially hired by Miami based on his resume as an offensive coordinator. That's the point. Devoid of context, he looked like a genius. It was your road. Your point was that the argument - a coaches success can be discounted based on an elite quarterback - could be applied to Belichick, and so we went down the road of his success without an elite quarterback. That's now not your "initial point" because it turned out your point didn't support your conclusion You're saying projecting is bad, right? Kind of like, oh, projecting how McCarthy would do without Rodgers?! Look, most coaches can't do both the GM job and and head coach job successfully. It's not a great, bounding leap to assume McCarthy is like most head coaches. His resume being linked to Rodgers isn't projection, it's cold, hard, set in concrete fact. You seem to be conflating the two. Are you denying that he coached Aaron Rodgers? Why does the time of day matter?
