Different era, in Tommy's day you could bench your star or even cut him with no real ill effect, teams really controlled players back then. Now days it's an entirely different ballgame.
Anthony Dixon the huge hb from miss. state would be nice addition to ground pound we dont know if greene can last a full season as feature back and lt on last legs, and leon coming back from tib/fib compound fracture so lets get another brusier please
Thats maybe one of the first big boards I have seen that I dont have major disagreements with, I like the fact that he calls Mays out for what he really is. I also like that he knows Jimmy Claussen is going to be a good player unlike McShame/scouts inc who give Claussen a second round grade
It's really really hard to argue with Gil's logic when you consider his very long and successful career at evaluating talent.
It's a pretty good list. I have four pretty high profile points to pick with it. Brian Bulaga is not going to be a plus tackle in the NFL with his short arms. He's going to get beaten too often in pass protection and you can't have that in this game. He's going to have to move inside to LG where he will be a plus player - that's not a top 10 player. Some team probably will try to play Bulaga at tackle for a season or two, but they'll eventually have to move him inside. Markice Pouncey is too low. He should be in the 11-20 tier. Yes, that's high for a center, but Brandt says he might well be the best center prospect in the last 10 years. He could get drafted above Bulaga at 15 and it would be fine by me. I figured Brandt would get Tim Tebow right. When a guy has accuracy issues in college and is changing his basic throwing motion in the months before the draft it's kind of a dead giveaway that he's probably not going to be an NFL QB. Yeah, he was a great college QB and you can always argue that there have been a few players in NFL history (like Johnny Unitas) who basically told the NFL how to play the position instead of vice-versa, however the odds on Tim Tebow being a good NFL QB are worse than the odds that Scott Frost would be a great NFL safety. Some guys are just really good at the college level and aren't going to have remotely that kind of impact in the NFL. Tebow should be a 4th round pick but nobody can wrap their brains around that despite all the evidence that is out there. Colt McCoy is short and he has a subpar arm. How can he be ranked in the top 40 players in this draft? Drew Brees was short and had a cannon.
Jon Gruden and Bill Parcells, who know more about that position than anyone on this board, think otherwise. The league has changed. Tim Tebow will eventually start at quarterback in this league and be halfway decent. He'll go higher than the fourth because he has value as a package player - the guy's going to be dangerous inside the five as a runner. I don't expect him to be a great passer, but he'll be a winner.
And that is the definition of a 4th round pick. Not a 1st rounder. The most comparable player to Tim Tebow that I can think of coming out of college was Brad Smith. Sound like your description of what he'll do?
Its funny you say that because I have been thinking the exact same thing for a little over a week and a half. My best draft scenario would be us trading down into the top 5 of the 2nd round and picking up Linval Joseph. But then I keep thinking, is it even worth the risk to trade down to pick up maybe a 4th rounder? When we can get the definite guy we want, maybe 7 picks too high. It obviously depends on how the draft falls at the time being, but my reasoning has it that if this is a guy we are interested in we should nab him when we have a chance. I have the same kind of feeling for him as I did for Haloti Ngata. Although they are different players the fact of the matter is they are both HUGE guys who are very athletic and fit our scheme perfectly. If the board is slimming and Joseph is there I say you pull the trigger
I didn't say Tim Tebow should go in the first round, but he should definitely be the third quarterback selected in this draft. He's nothing like Brad Smith. Smith was one of the best running quarterbacks of all time. Tebow won't play receiver, he won't return kicks, and he won't play on special teams. That's a horrible comparison. Tebow will have an immediate impact inside the redzone. Anyone that doesn't realize that hasn't watched the kid play. It'll take him a while to develop as a passer, but time's on his side. If he goes to a team like the Vikings, he'll thrive in a situational role early in his career.
He's the most comparable QB to Smith in a bunch of ways, including the fact that both of them had as many rushes as passes completed, both of them scored a huge number of TD's on the ground (want to guess who beat who by 1 TD in that regard?), and both of them are seen as unlikely to be able to transfer their college passing style to the pros despite leading record breaking offenses in college. Brad Smith, for all of the above, was told before the draft that he had no chance to play QB in the NFL and should look elsewhere for his pro career. Tebow on the other hand has had people doing a masterful job of cutting that likely eventuality off at the pass and avoiding being pre-determined as a non-QB, this despite clearly being a poor prospect at QB in the NFL. The difference between Tebow and Smith is that Tebow will probably wind up at TE if he does not wash out completely in his first few seasons, whereas Smith was coverted to WR instantly. I suspect that before he's done Tebow will try TE and he'll play on special teams, probably as a holder initially but then in more active roles. This is a fantasy. Nobody has time to learn how to play QB at the NFL level. If you knew how to play QB in college you have some time to adjust to the speed of the pro game. Tebow is not going to be allowed to play the way he played in college. We've seen that voluntary admission on his part over the last 3 months as he has worked hard to change his entire passing style to be more like a typical pro QB. His best chance to succeed would be to just let him do what he has been doing and see if it translates, although that is a low probability. Changing him around like they are going to do makes his chances of failing higher than they would otherwise be.
What are you babbling about? If Tebow is drafted by a team that has a definite starter at quarterback, he'll have plenty of time to learn how to become a better passer. Tebow knows how to play quarterback. They don't compare at all. You want to compare a 2010 prospect to Brad Smith...compare Joe Webb to Brad Smith. Webb is a great running quarterback that HAS to make the switch to receiver. Tebow doesn't have to convert to another position. I don't give damn how many TDs Smith and Tebow scored...they play a completely different style of football. Tebow scored the majority of his TDs inside the five. Smith has a ton of long runs. Once again, I'll trust Parcells and Gruden on this one.
No, he really doesn't know how to play QB at the NFL level, and he likely won't ever know how to. He has always dominated inferior talent pools with his size and his ability to squirm out of trouble and deliver the ball on the run. His low throwing motion is terrible for the NFL, where the trenches stand more than an inch taller than at the collegiate level. His ability to squirm out of trouble hasn't been tested by the quicker, bigger players that accumulate in NFL defenses. The idea that he has several season to develop in the NFL as a high draft choice is ludicrous on the face of it. Your suggestion that a team that has a QB good enough to play in front of a 1st round draft pick for say, two or three seasons, would bother to draft a QB of Tebow's questionable ability to adapt to the NFL is also off-base. If a team has a QB good enough to let them develop Tebow then they also have other needs (to go alongside that good enough QB) that they need to fill with that pick. If they don't have a QB good enough to keep Tebow on the bench then in theory they might pick him but he'd have no time to develop in the leisurely environment you seem to think will exist for him. Tebow is at best a developmental QB prospect and a team picking him as a QB should be doing it in the 4th round. If they're projecting him at a different position the story is not so different either. Find a couple of QB's drafted in the 1st round who had to completely change their throwing style in the NFL and subsequently became quality pro QB's. Bring them back to this argument and I might concede the point.
I stopped reading here... Tim Tebow consistently dominated the SEC. The SEC is the best conference in college football. You're trying to argue with me about something you clearly don't know enough about.
Like JaMarcus Russell dominated the SEC? On the Urban Meyer offense front: like Alex Smith has lit up the NFL since being taken way too high in the NFL draft? Some schools and coaches produce great numbers without producing great QB's. Florida is famous for that and Urban Meyer is working on it.
Yeah, he did do well when he played at LSU. That was when he weighed about 40 pounds less and actually cared about football. Smith didn't look too bad last season. He definitely hasn't lived up to where he was drafted, but he's finally starting to develop. John Brantley will change your opinion. I'm willing to bet you don't even know who he is.
John Brantley might do that. Tim Tebow is unlikely too. Edit: when was the last time a legitimately good NFL QB prospect had every scout saying he'd make a good H-Back? Think about it. QB is such a valuable position that if scouts are making those comments it's almost like a flashing red neon sign that's saying "this guy is probably not an NFL QB, so think about that when you decide where to draft him." I can't recall the last time a top-list QB had people talking about any other position.
There has never been another prospect like Tebow. Sure some have similar characteristics, but none overall like Tebow, so of course no one else will have ever had a similar scouting report.
I think many think that Tebow will eventually work himself into a NFL starter just based on his drive and work ethic alone. I have to admit that I was a nonbeliever until I saw the strides he made to his throwing motion and footwork in just the short time between the Senior Bowl and his pro day.
Are we talking about the same Drew Brees? Drew Brees fell on draft day specifically because of concerns about his arm strength and size. He was not as cannon armed as he appears now. In fact, no one wanted to sign him after his shoulder injury specifically because his "adequate" arm might not ever be the same. He has clearly improved his arm strength, but to suggest that he was regarded as "cannon armed" on draft day is absurd. Were he cannon armed out of college, with his numbers, he'd have gone right after Vick. Instead he slipped to round 2. -X-
