He's bringing it on himself. Nobody else has commented on it, from the players. Giambi dug himself his hole, go ahead and go in it Jason.
Big fucking deal. Until a year or two ago, amphetamines were as prevalent in baseball as chewing tobacco. Willie fucking Mays of all people was notorious for having a bottle of juice in his locker at all times. But of course Giambi is cheating and we all hate cheaters who ruin this pristine sport. Bicycle racing for the lot of you.
See, I think this attitude irks me more than anything else. The feeling that "hey, people have been doing it for ages, so why is it a big deal now?" Well, women have been prostitutes for most of mankind's existence. So let your daughter do it. Porn too, that's been around for decades. War is an old thing too. Sign your sons up. People have been cheating on their taxes as long as the IRS has been collecting them. So stop paying. I can go on and on all day. The fact of the matter is that this comes down to cheating. If you cheat in ANYTHING and get caught, you're going to pay a price. (Unless you're Joey Buttofuco[sp?]. ) Shrugging it off by saying "well everyone else is doing it," is something I respond to my kids with the old: "if they all jumped off a bridge, would you do it too?" I can only respond the same way here.
^^ do you overreact to real life like this, is this some kind of internet persona you've created?:breakdance:
The problem is that even if the Yankees void his contract you know there is going to be some team that will sign him, regardless of his history. It's just a cycle that will continue to go around until the league starts punishing these guys more for their actions. The issue is the baseball union is one of the strongest in the nation and rules with an iron fist.
Okay, explain to me why this is not "real life." It's not a comic book. It's not a movie or tv show. It's not the main character in a novel series being killed off. So how exactly is this not "real life?" It's douchebags being indirectly paid by you and I to play a game for profit. It is their profession, just as mine is programming. If I stole an application's code, changed the front end of it so it looked different, and marketed it for public use, would I not have to pay a penalty when caught? Would it not be justified for me to be punished? Pete Rose will never be in Cooperstown because he bet on baseball games. The reason you can't bet on baseball games is because it introduces the chance of cheating. There is no evidence that Pete Rose ever actually cheated during a game. Yet the fact remains that there is a POSSIBILITY that he cheated, and therefore, what he did was wrong. Giambi HAS cheated. He has also ADMITTED to cheating. Now, we learn he has also been CAUGHT cheating. So how exactly is this irrelevant enough to warrant a shrug coupled with a smartass comment? Herein lies the problem in my view. Athletes are not held to the same standard as John Q. Public. Grown men playing games we did as kids are not expected to have any responsibility for their own actions. This is exactly why I voted for Goodell as the best commish in sports in the BS section. He's already put his foot down and said, in no uncertain terms, that these grown men ARE responsible for their actions. And if those actions violate a certain level of decency, which is not even unfair to demand, they will pay the price. So to answer your question, I would react the same way in the "real world" if one of my co-workers was doing something on the level of cheating. Hell, I was accused three times of plagiarism in college. Twice by the same professor. All three times I was fully innocent and proved it. I can practice what I preach. So how exactly am I "overreacting" on an internet message board, to a topic specifically about the matter I am discussing?
Blah, blah, blah, blah...I'm right...blah, blah, your wrong...blah, blah blah. Continue for about 250 words and you have a typical Alio post. He wins debates by boring you to death reading his long winded posts.
For real? Equating amphetamine use by Jason Giambi to signing your daughters up for prostitution or pirating source code? Sure, same difference. He broke a rule that didn't exist until a year or two ago. Off with his head. The hall of fame has a few guys in there who threw a spitball or two back in the day. We fondly remember them as legends. Some of them have even played for the Yanks (gasp). Chill out and grow up. Baseball is a game. Try to enjoy it a little.
I have no problem with what Alio is saying, it's bs. If you cheat in school you are punished. If you do drugs at work, you likely are going to be fired. If you cheat on your spouse they most likely will leave you. For some reason if you cheat in baseball you are rewarded. It's real life and it's bs that it happens
I do enjoy the game. I played it for years. I played it clean too. As for other cheaters, they are always a problem. That means I'm supposed to just say "okay, there's nothing I can do about it, so I'll just accept it?" Yes, there are cheaters who have worn pinstripes. And they don't escape my ire either. In case you didn't realize it, this entire thread is about a YANKEE. One who I not only want off my team, but also out of the sport. Losing him would hurt the Yankees in terms of RBI production, but I would rather lose the runs than put up with a cheater. If you don't like the conversation, why bother getting involved? BTW: It doesn't matter when the rules were instituted. The substances he's used have never been legal. Baseball is not immune to the law.
Hey man, just because everybody doesn't fall into lockstep with your knee jerk overreaction, they can't contribute? Bullshit on that. Go back and reread "Ball Four." An excellent companion piece to "License to Steal." I think Shade Tree is on the money. Fire Sather.
You weren't contributing. You were telling me I was overreacting. There's a difference. You also told me to grow up and enjoy baseball. How exactly do you figure this is a "contribution" to the topic? To re-read "Ball Four" I would have had to read it the first time, which I won't. No desire to. Honestly, I don't even know what it's about, nor do I particularly care. I'm not interested in reading books about games. Shade is whatever. He's on my ignore list, so I don't know, nor do I care, what he has to say.
jesus, lighten up. Every literate baseball fan should read Ball Four, in my opinion, but of course you're free to do whatever you want, your loss.
What "real world" do you live in where "normal people" don't get second chances and rehabilitation never works? Your scenario of one strike and you're out just doesn't fit our society or the sport we're speaking about. In reality people make mistakes... deal with the consequence and move on. Why should baseball players be any different? Who has Giambi wronged so badly that it's irreparable and we need to take away his right to make a living playing baseball because he failed one drug test for amphetamines? Should he be punished? Sure, but to suggest he should be banned from the sport because he failed one test is ludacris. You fail to answer me... what purpose would such a harsh punishment serve? What would it protect? You ask why should baseball be responsible for the prevention of drug use among its players... the real question is why shouldn't it?? It's in the best interest of MLB and it's players to have clean healthy educated athletes... this will produce the best product on and off the field, that's a no-brainer!
Okay, if people get second chances, go into work tomorrow drunk or high. Make sure people know. Then ask for a second chance when your boss tells you not to bother coming in on Friday. I never said rehab doesn't work. If you're going to argue with me, don't put words in my mouth. One strike is Giambi testifying that he used steroids. A second strike is getting busted with amphetamines. How many strikes is enough? 3? Where would you suggest drawing the line? And what do you propose to be the penalty for each infraction? Your stance that it is Giambi's right to make a living playing baseball is perhaps where our difference in opinion comes from. I do not believe he has a "right" to make a living playing baseball. He has a right to make a living, nothing more. Playing baseball is a privilege that only a few thousand men have ever had. You give him the benefit of the doubt that he only got "busted" once. Fine. I argue that he's proven he cheated at least twice now. Once to the investigation committee, and once to baseball with the amphetamines. Again, I'll ask, when is it enough chances? Even if we say he's only liable for his one positive test, how many more tests is he allowed to fail before he is gone for good? We're just months from witnessing someone break the most coveted record in all of sports, whose best argument is that he had no idea what he was putting in his body, more than once. We can sit and argue all day long about the excuses to let it slide. In the end, that's all they are, excuses. Not a lack of guilt. Of course it's in baseball's best interests to educate players to stay clean. At the same time, why does baseball have a responsibility to clean up guys who couldn't practice self-control to begin with? I don't feel baseball has any responsibility to these players whatsoever. Unless rather than the blind eye being turned by baseball, we learn that MLB actively encouraged steroid/speed usage. These are grown men. If they are stupid enough to put this crap in their bodies, regardless of the common knowledge of their negative side-effects, then they deserve whatever punishment comes their way. It's not like this is 1910. Hell, in the time that Giambi used steroids, Lyle Alzado had already died, and came out publicly to clearly state that steroids is what did it to him. (Obviously, not in that order.)
