Great posts dabrowsk1. While I do respect some of the opinions of some of the guys on ESPN, they are by no means important when it comes to game time. I totally agree that draft ratings are meaningless. It's funny when you think about this: pre-draft, the board was lit up with people not wanting to look at BPAs. A huge number of people wanted one or two specific players, but at the same time wanted us to fill our roster out as much as possible. While I didn't agree with some of the picks, including Shlegal (I'm still not sure of the spelling) I also don't know what the plans of this regime. They have access to tons of film, Mangini has seen this team on a field from the other sideline, the coaching staff are the only ones who know the new schemes, etc. They know much better than any of us who is important to build this team. Mel Kiper doesn't, Aliothefool doesn't. So noone outside of the Jets organization knows who is the "right fit" for this team. At this point, there is no way to know how successful this draft was. The only time we can begin to measure the draft is sometime in November, after some of these guys have had a chance to succeed or fail on the field. Even then, we still don't know if any of them will be the guy that makes that one big play that gets us into the AFC championship game in 2009. I think we, as Jets fans, are so sick of ineptitude that it doesn't matter what the staff does. Nobody is willing to wait and see, especially after trying that with Herm. I have bounced back and forth about Mangini and co. since they were brought in. At this point, I am sitting right on the fence. I'm not getting my hopes up, but at the same time, I am waiting out the storm to see if there is a sunny day just on the horizon.
Well you aren't exactly agreeing with sanity. Just because espn says it's true, doesn't mean it is. If the sport reporters could get a job being and nfl gm, they would have already. There's a difference between doing it for a living, and writing about it for a living.
Miami has a #2 overall pick who had 950 yds splitting time. NE has Dillon and a highly regarded first round pick. Curtis Martin averaged 3.3 per carry last year and has a lot of miles on him.
Why don't you look at the last 5 years of Curtis' career instead of just last year when our offensive line was horrible, we had no passing game to speak of (8 men in the box), and he was freakin injured. I know why, because you only focus on the negatives. THAT is the mentality of a loser. Yes he's probably in the twilight of his HOF career now, but he has gas left in the tank and he'll be spelled by Houston and the other guys we have at RB to keep him fresh. Houston did pretty well at the end of last season and showed a lot of promise considering the circumstances, but you wouldn't know that because it was something positive about the season. :martin:
Well known - Yes. Respected - well maybe for their coverage of curling during the Olympics. ESPN does not do the fans justice in most major sports, not just its NFL coverage! Great place to get highlights and scores, but if you are looking for analysis and insight - look elsewhere.
Blitz - I'd be thrilled with 7 wins, although a .500 season is certainly within reach. I agree 100% that a first season coach winning 7/8 games would be an outstanding start. OT: do you use the same handle on the Isles boards?
First off, dabrow, I believe it was paraquat who was called out, not you. Again, its pretty simple. The draft matters, how you approach the draft and work your draft board matters. Getting players at the right spot is hugely important for depth and overall roster improvement as when you reach for players you lose out on better players by doing so. This should be elementary but I guess you younger fans just don't get it. Draft ratings are not made in a vacuum by idiots who live in their mom's basements. Many fans in here lived by them up until the time they didn't support the players Tangini took in this draft. The Kipers and Ourlad's of the world do talk to scouts, to GM's and league personnel. I know there's a ton of disinformation before the draft but based on all the information available in the internet age I don't believe that Schlegel carried a third round grade. I don't believe his measurables or pro potential warrants that high a selection. Obviously there's no way to tell where the other 31 teams ranked him but as a fan I don't think the Jets got VALUE by taking this guy or Smith in the third round especially when you consider that there were better players available at need positions. Its really easy to turn the tables on you and say how do you know any of the other teams had schegel rated in the top 3 rounds. Go back and read previous issues of the Kiper and PFW books. They are remarkably accurate in terms of what they say about many players' long term potential. You mentioned that many players Kiper picks in round 2 and 3 slip down the boards. I'm not worried about them. I'm more concerned about the guys who can be had by trading down or by waiting a round or 2 later that get over-valued by a novice GM and HC running their first draft. I can't believe that questioning a draft pick or two in an otherwise decent draft brings out such emotions in people in here. I didn't like the Van Dyke pick years ago either.
Fleming - not that I am trying to get in the middle of the little love fest that is this thread, but I think it is important to point out that while your comments above make sense on the surface, the problem is that your premise is based on the other players available being better. At this point, there is no evidence to that hypothesis, only speculation and conjecture. While draft rankings and player ratings are a component of what goes into a team's selection, there are many other intanginiables (spelling error on purpose for the spelling hawks in the crowd) that are part of the selection process. Were there other players available that were projected to be better, safer picks - sure. But I think it is premature to say that the Jets blew the pick. How many times in the past have they selected sure thing highly regarded players only to have them be busts - well it is too many times for this 42 year old (reference to your younger fans comment). I think you are a little quick to condemn here, let's let all the players suit up and play a few downs before we lable the Mangini era a failure!
You made a very reasonable post above and nobody is going to get over emotional by questioning a pick or two or a disagreement on players. They may disagree but that doesn't make them emotional or homers. The reason you get such a visceral reaction to your post is not that people are homers it's because you started your post with gems like this. And this And If any one has gotten emotional in this thread it?s you Fleming. It's hard to take your football knowlege seriously when you come off like a sarcastic 16 year old.
Either you are just completely missing my point, or ignoring it entirely. But I am not going say what I have already have. But I will address a few of your comments. Um, no, you replied to my post. I am not a child, do not talk down to me. I have not done so to you. If you have to be purposefully condenscending when replying to my posts, then don't. I have not done so to you, when it would have been easy to. You say they are reaches. And you are basing your evaluations the ratings of Kiper and the like. YOU think there were better players, it does not make it so. They are only reaches if they do not work out. No, the draft does not matter, getting good perceived "value" from a guy like Kiper, does not matter. What matters is wins, period. If you reach for a player that later helps you win the SB, who gives a crap. By your logic, the Lions should have won the SB by now. I mean they draft 3 top rated WRs and a QB. Why even have games, they won the draft with great value, yippee. The draft and draft grades do not mean ANYTHING. It is a way to build the team, same with trades, FA, and UDFA. Winning is what matters, not grading well in the draft. Whether a pick is good or not is based on his prodcution, not Kiper's ratings. This is not Madden or a fantasy football league. Even before the internet, draft ratings didn't mean anything. It was just a way to give Kiper a job and ESPN to get people to watch the draft. What matters is what the teams thinks it needs and wants. And that is your opinion on the players, it does not mean that the FO "reached" or "failed". Whether this was a good draft or not can only be determined after we se the production on the field. Which is COMPLETELY different than you not agreeing with the pick or liking another player more. YOU thought there were better players. YOU do not think they got value. But what determines value is production and where they were on the Teams board. Which by the way is a completely different argument then what you said before. Ummm...duh? I don't know. That was the point. YOU said that no other team had them rated that high. You don't know, I don't know. So to assume they did not get good value without seeing their board, or before they even play a down in the NFL is moronic. No really. Do you want to go over the 1st round busts? Or guys that they had as going undrafted, but turn into star players? How about we look over Brady's scouting report? I can look on the net, and have as much chance of being right as they do. That's convenient. I was not being emotional ever. I presented logical rebutes to your arguments, and you started with the name calling. Go back and look at your past posts. And I never questioned you opinion on who you thought they should have drafted. I was questioning your logic behind evaluating the FO and your view on the draft. If you notice, I never once said if I liked the picks or not. That is not the point. The point is no one wins or loses in the draft. The purpose is not to get perceived value based on what Kiper, or fans think. The purpose is to get the players the team thinks it needs to win. Period. End of disscussion. Whether you get those players in FA, trades, reaching, in the 4th, 7th, does not matter. What matters is getting the players and winning. If those players do not help you win, then you can say the picks were bad. I am just repeating myself now. It is like talking to a wall.
Flaming - yeah, I guess I was the one who was "called out," but I think that the majority of people here would agree with me and disagree with you. You keep repeating that there were "better players" available in the third round. Unless you are flying around in a Delorian with Doc, there is absolutely no factual evidence to support this claim. The boards of scouting "experts" are proved wrong year in and year out. Many players are taken before they are projected, and many are taken after they are projected. Ultimately, it comes down to the play on the field, and judging whether our third round picks were a value or not before anyone has even stepped onto the field is way too premature. In any case, I'm tired of arguing with you. Nothing anyone says is going to change your pessimistic attitude anyway.
I didnt say that they were right , im just saying id rather agree with them because its their job to do this and not some random poster, who doesnt know about it as much as the professional.
It always blows me away when people start to tear members of the this board up in general...then when they are called on it they hit you with "why all the venom?". Your post here Winston just makes someone look in the mirror..so they fully understand why they get the responses they deserve. These thread titles such as "For all the whining loser Jet fans"...or "Get real people"....hmmmm...I will never understand how posters that start threads like this are surprised that people in general dont like being told they are...."unreal". If a certain poster wants to point this out to several posters...do it one on one. To generalize a thread like this is why back in the years BC, deep pits were made and former great Ice Skaters (only on this board do I not have to explain that one...see the author of the thread) were thrown in and rocked to death. Now....2006...people just get "called on it". A bit of a wimpy world we have become. (throwing down rock in disgust.)
The Ice Capades is doing 'Cavemen On Ice'? Excellent. Gives a new shade of meaning to the word, "UGH!" I'll throw some shin bones on the ice if it s*cks and demand my money back. I think I'll check out Othello instead. Oh, lookee, there's Trog rehearsing with Desdemona.
And what's the FO of any nfl's teams job to do? listen to the sports reporters? The only round reporters ever get graded on is the first round of the draft because they have the highest chance of getting them right there. If we drafted Schlegel in the first round of the draft then that's a reach. So we took a LB a reporter says would have been there later. Who's to say he would? Something led the Jets believe that Schlegel wouldn't be around much later. Could they be wrong? yes. Could the reporters be wrong? yes. That's the bottom line, the truth will not be known until years after they start playing. I just don't understand how some fans can get so emotional over the draft and how right they think they are. If you could be a GM, then stop posting on a football messageboard already.
