If Vick starts, I fully expect Marty to try and get him to protect himself better. It is not a given that he will get hurt, despite his history. To be sure I recognize the way his game in the past has left him open to too many injuries and too many games off the field. But I also know a younger Vick did in fact limit his running and became more of a pocket passer when he began playing for Marty and Andy Reid. I fully expect him to cut down on his runs even more this year. I guess I fit the description of what passes for a bigtime skeptic about Smith. Part of that is I found that his interceptions were virtually entirely on him last year, compared to ones that are tipped passes or receivers not completing their routes. I also think focusing purely on Kerley ignores that Smith did have the benefit of the sixth best running attack in the league, but still was the worst starting Qb. In short I think his defenders overrate the argument that he lacked adequate support, and more to the point that his major issues were in effect the fault of others. I don't see that. So, to me he has a very deep hole to dig out of. So, if Vick is healthy, and the competition is fair, I expect him to start. Having said that, playing Vick does not bring the team closer to figuring out what to do with Smith after 14, and that is an issue.
You are cherry picking stats. Team won lost record is a team record. I understand that the Eagles played much better with Foles, but Foles arguably had the best year of any Qb in the league. They were also using a new O brought in by Chip Kelly, which took some shaking down. But Vick in fact had a qb rating of 86.5 dspite that, far far better than Smith's. You second paragraph makes a much more interesting point. I am not sure I agree, but it is intriguing. In effect I understand you to say that the CS and FO view Vick as such suspect competition, that a failure by Smith to beat him out BEFORE THE PRESEASON IS OVER will mean they will get a new Qb for 15, and Smith is done. Hm. Interesting. But I can't agree at this point.
I'm actually hoping Geno beats out Vick, even tho I don't think it's likely. At 34years old Vick is not the future of the franchise. Even tho Geno had some horrid last games last season, in fairness to him, he needs to be surrounded with a more legit offense than what we had last season. Seems like we're in that right direction with obtaining some decent offensive weapons. Then we can truly tell what we have in Geno. Somehow I just get the feeling we're going to be in the market for a new QB in 2015. I just don't see Geno as "The guy", but if he starts I hope he proves me wrong
If Idzik brought in Vick to start, he would have signed him for more than a year. That's not to say Vick won't play. There's a chance because Smith's performance is largely unknown. At this point though Geno has more potential long term, therefore he is who the organization will want to start. Geno Smith is going to need every game rep he can get, without causing any extreme detriment to the team's performance. He cannot be losing us games.
The bolded part doesn't follow at all. First of all the Jet FO obviously prefers to enter into the shortest deals that make sense. Look at some of last year's signings, like Colon. Signed to be a starter, one year deal, and he's back again. They also don't know if Vick will stay healthy, which for him is a bigger issue than for the average player. Coupled with his age, I assume they could only have gotten a longer term agreement if they agreed to guaranteed money after the first year. Why do that with Vick? Your post also ignores the "possibility" ( I would say likelihood) that Vick outperforms Smith in the pre-season. The Jets entered into the deal ostensibly not knowing who would win the coming competition. If Vick beats out Smith, why would the one year term nonetheless mean that Smith should start? I do think the Jets would like to see what Smith can do, and will have to decide who the Qb is going to be in the medium term. But that is not why they signed Vick to a one year deal.
Fair points, but to say that the Jets prefer to enter into shorter deals over longer deals is a fallacy. They enter into deals that make sense for a particular player and a particular position. For example, the Jets just signed Eric Decker to a 5 year deal because they see him as a future cornerstone of this organization, and because we were bereft of talent at that position. Last year, Chris Ivory signed a 3 year deal partly because he was labeled as an injured player, but he was a player that was worth the risk because we needed a back like him (again because outside Bilal Powell we did not have a running back). We signed Colon to a one year deal originally because he was a player most organizations saw as done. He ended up being a starter, but he could have lost his job to Winters, Campbell, Peterman or Ducasse; we had depth at that position. He ended up working out well, therefore we signed him to another year, but I wouldn't be surprised if he has heavy competition for his job. We just signed Chris Johnson to a 2 year deal because we weren't particularly needy at running back, we were 6th in rushing last year. Johnson is also on the decline, and will not be used as a bell-cow back. Point is, when Idzik sees a worthwhile player who he thinks can help this organization long term, he signs them long term, and he signs them to start. As far as Geno Smith-Michael Vick goes, everyone knows that the days Michael Vick is a Jet are numbered. Whether by injury or performance decline, Vick will not play in 16 games this season, even if he wins the job out of camp. Quarterback is a position that requires stability more than any other, I am sure you agree with this. I highly doubt Idzik will want to waste another draft pick on a quarterback before squeezing out every bit of talent from Smith, especially because Smith showed some promise to be a long term starter last year. Therefore, the organization will be more inclined to play Geno. Vick is there for insurance under the facade of pushing Geno. Vick greatly under performed last year on a team that had great offensive weapons compared to those on the Jets, even accounting for Vick's injuries. The notion that Vick right now is so far ahead of Geno and will without a doubt outperform him during the offseason/preseason is a bit ridiculous in my opinion.
So, in his 12 year career Vick has only started all 16 games once,.. ONCE and that was almost a decade ago ( 2005/6 season ). He's played under Marty for 4 years ( Never finishing one of those years as a starter without getting injured ) and will be turning 34 years old this league year. Despite all of this, You think he's magically going to learn from Marty how to not get injured and be a dependable starter for the JETS? There's a better chance of Geno being unanimously selected for Superbowl MVP this year.
Geno is mostly at fault for his shit play last year bottomline. However every rookie QB needs to have stability at the skill positions and with the combination of guys in and out of the lineup and his lack of OTA/training camp reps, ankle injury and the speed of the pro game compared to college it's expected for him to struggle. That's why I wasn't too hard on him last year. Hopefully a year of experience and a chance to get all the offseason reps can help him realize his potential. Bringing in Vick is good because he doesn't need much reps in OTA's etc and can step in if needed.
Geno, if healthy, will be the starter. Vick is the back-up. If he was so good Philly would have kept him. Forget about the Vick of ten years ago. He is erratic and injury prone now and not able to take many hits. Smith has all the tools to be a top QB. He works, has a big arm and learns. Every NFL team needs two QBs and Idzik likes competition. This way he is sure Geno keeps trying to improve and doesn't take anything for granted. It also keeps Roc Nation from asking for first round money since he was a second round pick.
Thats totally fair. Geno did have some horrible looking throws last season. If he starts out of the gate those mistakes will not be tolerated again this year. The only problem I would have with it is if the competition is close , which I expect it will be. I think Vick would have less of a hit to his confidence if he had to come in for Geno then it being the other way around. IMO, to be the Week 1 starter Vick is going to either have to completely outplay Geno or Geno's going to have to get hurt.
Vick was on a team in Philly with some of the best offensive weapons in the league and he still couldn't succeed long term.Vick isn't the answer to any question football related
So you think there won't be a competition or are you saying Vick won't win it? You don't pay a backup 4M when there were a dozen others you could have gotten cheaper and that seems to be the Idzik motivation, how cheap can I go?
I really don't think Vick will start even if he has the edge over Geno in training camp,He is 33 years old Geno is 23,This is a young mans game Vick had his chance to succeed along time ago.This is Vicks 12th season what is he gonna show us that we havent seen already?We have been getting younger at every position why would we change that trend at QB?
You can't compare their stats from last year apples to apples. Not only were they on completely different teams with completely different talent levels and strengths, But Vick only threw 141 passes compare to Geno's 443. If you want to compare the two you'll have to do it relative to their body of work, and their opposition. And even then it's a rough shod guess. Vick 3 / 141 - 2.2% int rate ( 2.8% Career ). Geno 21 / 443 = 4.7% int rate You have to assume Geno's rate will drop over the next couple years where Vicks is probably pretty well established. Average Ranking of Opponents Passing Defense ( by yards / game ) Vick - 19.4 Average defensive ranking Geno - 11.2 Average defensive ranking So where Geno generally played teams with top half ranked passing defenses, Vick played with a significantly lower level of talent on the opposing side of the ball. Don't get me wrong I think Vick is a good pickup to help Geno learn, But I think people are greatly over estimating his ability to waltz in here and take the job. Vick is very much a QB on the backside of his career and I think the team would be better off handing Geno the keys.
I think right now, Vick could win the competition and then would be the starter. But my optimistic side is going to kick in and I say Geno improves this summer and into TC and beats out Vick for the job. I will say it's probably a 50/50 shot he does that, but I'm sure some people will feel that's too low for Geno or too high Geno. It just represents I really don't know what to expect from him. He did improve at the end of the year. We also played games against slumping teams at that point too. Will be interesting to see. I think it would be best for the Jets if Geno beats out what we expect from Vick. It would mean Geno made great strides and has reached adequate starter level. So it's too early to say who will win and get the job, but I think the best thing for the Jets would be if Geno wins in my hypothetical.
Just saying turnovers are probably the biggest factor there will be if there is a competition and if it is perceived that Smith will have more he will lose it. Doesn't mean he will start as LIB says above but if it is really a competition then he should.
Actually I never said 'if Geno blows Vick out of the water I want Vick to start anyway'. What I said was that the competition will be very close, and even if Geno edges out Vick, it could still be beneficial to Geno's career if he watched and learned from Vick (until Vick gets injured). Kind of like how young co-pilots should watch and learn from seasoned pilots before crashing their plane into the Indian Ocean.
It's all about perceived value. Someone like Rex Grossman or Shawn Hill may have come a lot cheaper, But neither of those players would help Geno progress as much as Vick will. Geno and Vick both have similar strengths and weaknesses and should be able to feed off each other in the film room. Vick had to learn over time how to be a good pocket passer and how to use his feet as a secondary weapon. The faster we can teach that to Geno the better off he will be. To me that makes spending an extra couple million to improve the speed at which Geno picks up the game.
