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Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by Jonathan_Vilma, Mar 15, 2021.

  1. RubenDias

    RubenDias Well-Known Member

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    Kyle fuller contract isnt bad we could offer a 7th roundpick to the bears istead of competing in the market for him
     
  2. NOVAJET

    NOVAJET "2020 TGG Fantasy Football Champ"

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    He's been released, about an hour ago.
     
  3. abyzmul

    abyzmul R.J. MacReady, 21018 Funniest Member Award Winner

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    Belichick is also the 9th oldest HC in NFL history. 68 years old. That dude isn't going to rebuild through the draft, especially since he's never really been good at it in the first place.
     
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  4. 88toon

    88toon Well-Known Member

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    Agreed Byz with you here but I think there is a middle ground that Douglas is missing. The Bell, Mosely, Trumaine contracts MUST be a thing of the past as you said. And I truly think we are done with that era with Douglas, which is a GREAT thing. But we have a 2-14 roster and a ton of cap space and tons of picks. We can add veteran talent to increase competition and still fill the roster with a ton of young talent through the draft. This was the year to do it, with so many players taking 1 year deals and us having more $$ than anyone. So what if we overpay a little on some 1-2 year deals. That's what a 2-14 team needs to do and I am good with that on SHORT DEALS. We could have added a lot of vets on short deals that don't handcuff the future to have a roster full of guys ready to compete. I'm glad he stayed away from the Thuney deal. And the Golloday deal. Those are deals that have sunk us in the past. But man, we could have added a lot of talent on short deals like many other teams did and still kept on pace with the plan to build through the draft.
     
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  5. NOVAJET

    NOVAJET "2020 TGG Fantasy Football Champ"

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  6. TurkJetFan

    TurkJetFan Well-Known Member

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    I willing to withhold my opinion of the offseason until after the draft. It’s too hard to judge it right now.
     
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  7. Falco21

    Falco21 Well-Known Member

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    Bingo.
     
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  8. NYJFOREVER

    NYJFOREVER Well-Known Member

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    Anyone making doom and gloom reactions needs to take a chill pill. Free agency isn't where good teams are built. Good GMs make smart acquisitions at positions of need/high-impact positions in free agency, which is what Joe Douglas is doing.

    The Jets haven't had a legitimate NFL WR corps since 2015, but now have a real WR group. Davis, Mims, Crowder, and Cole is a solid group of 4 and it's completely reasonable to expect Mims to take off in an NFL offense not predicated on screen passes. I am anticipating the Jets will draft another WR this year to develop into a deep threat or slot receiver.

    The Jets defensive front 4 is going to be really strong. Our defense was top 10 in QB pressures but lacked sacks, which means they didn't have an edge. They now have Lawson; him and Quinnen are both going to FEAST.

    Fans have yelled from the rooftops that this team has needed a complete tear down and rebuild for a full decade, and now that it's actually happening, fans can't handle it. It's fucking ridiculous.
     
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  9. KWJetsFan

    KWJetsFan Well-Known Member

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    Well, at least we can be disappointed immediately.
     
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  10. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I can't argue with anything you said, and think you're probably correct. While I realize that any system will narrow the field, I can't help but wonder if perhaps the Jets' are unnecessarily limiting the field by the systems they plan on employing. It could well be that they looked at FA and the draft, and are thinking they have 3-4 years to build a contender. If so, then that is a mistake, imo. They don't have enough sense of urgency. Yes, they just got here, but they aren't thinking about the fanbase and how we are tired of continual rebuilds and the team sucking. They need to be more focused on winning. Winning sooner and building a sustainable winner shouldn't be contradictory terms.

    I don't think Joe would be so dumb as to let Neal walk for only $5 million a year, but isn't part of a GM's job to try to woo players and sell them on the team? Have the Jets even had any FA in for a visit like the Giants have? I certainly haven't seen anything either here or on Twitter to indicate that they have. Overpaying is not the end of the world. Is it better to overpay for OL so that your QB has a chance of succeeding or stick to your guns and not overpay, and see your QB and offense struggle as a result? First and foremost, he's paid to produce wins, and to give the players he adds a chance to succeed. If he's pinching pennies just because that's what Ozzie told him he should do, and in the process keeping his team from being as good as it can be, then he's a fool.

    The problem with Bell, Mosely, and Trumaine Johnson were that they were all older, and were already very expensive, and there were other issues. Johnson had sucked for years and really didn't care about the game. He only cared about women and money. He should have never been signed in the first place. Bell had a ton of tread worn off and had sat out for two years. He had succeeded in Pittsburgh because of their scheme and their OL. The Jets had neither. Signing him was foolish. At least Mosley was a great player, but the Jets were really bidding against themselves. Still, if it weren't for Covid and Mosely getting injured, that would have worked out very well for the Jets. The problem isn't really overpaying for FAs, it's overpaying for the wrong FAs. When you're signing the right FAs, it's only a problem if it screws up one's cap or destroys a team's salary scale long term. The Jets didn't have enough great talent that they drafted for it to be a problem. They were basically a mercenary team anyway and with lesser-talented players. Going after great younger players like Neal and signing them is not a mistake imo. IMO it would have been worth it to sign him even if Douglas had had to pay him $8-$10 million per season and given him a chunk of guaranteed money or bonus money. I find it hard to believe that unless they just told Douglas up front that they had no interest in signing with the Jets, that Douglas couldn't have come up with some kind of contract that wasn't crazy that would have induced Neal to sign with us. Of course, they may have pretended they were interested in signing here, never were, and just used the Jets to try to drive Dallas' price up, but they also might have been legitimately interested, but in the end, JD didn't make the offer sweet enough to overcome Neal's desire to play for Dallas. Maybe nothing would have. This is where I wish we could find out all the details, so we'd have a better understanding.
     
  11. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if JD had even picked up the phone yet.
     
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  12. abyzmul

    abyzmul R.J. MacReady, 21018 Funniest Member Award Winner

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    It's typical New York Jets Timing. For the past 20 years we've been watching groups of good to great QBs get drafted while whatever failure we drafted was in year 2 of their "development", then when we finally give up on them our draft class comes up and it's Mark Sanchez and Joe Flacco or Geno Smith and EJ Manuel. Whenever we decide to try to do some trend we're years behind the curve and it wouldn't work at that point even if we did it correctly.

    So now we have a GM who sold the boss on building through the draft a couple of years ago but didn't even get to start his build because they hired him after the entire offseason process had completed, so he sat on his hands and waited to start late. Now he's sticking to the guns of his build plan even though there's like 5000 FA's available he's finding short term foundation pieces and leaving the rest for the draft. NYJets timing. Yeah, he's missing out, but it's not like he announced the Jets were going to make a splash in FA. He told us exactly what we were going to see and we're seeing it.

    Oh look, my NYJ clock just struck 12, that means this is the year the entire league neutralizes the Shanahan wide zone and it goes out of vogue again.
     
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  13. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

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    Remember on day 1 when a bunch of people thought people were overreacting about the lackadaisical approach in FA? Turns out early pattern recognition is a thing.

    Look, I'm not saying blow the bank like our past GM's have done. That's not the correct way to build a team. But not even making a solid effort to fill certain glaring holes that could have been filled well within our price range is an L. It just is.

    We have a ton of draft picks but expecting to fill a bunch of holes via the draft alone is just as stupid as trying to do it via FA alone. Even high draft picks bust at quite a high rate.

    We've done some good things this FA, Lawson and Davis are very good signings. We've also had some glaring missed opportunities though. Nothing is completely black and white. We can commend JD for some things while also pointing out that there are obvious missteps he's made.
     
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  14. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    No, it isn't ridiculous. Are things better? Yes. Could they have been even better? Most likely. When you were in school would your parents have been satisfied with your bringing home Cs and Ds on your report card when you were capable of bringing home As and Bs? When you can sign a 25-year old FA, it's just like drafting him, except you're paying him more. You're still getting a player that can potentially help you for 5-10 years. You're still getting a quality player, and in fact, when you sign a FA, you should be guaranteed that you're getting a quality player if you've done your homework, whereas the draft is a crapshoot. The Jets have cap space now, they don't have a bunch of big contracts, a bunch of dead money comes off the cap following this season, next year's cap is likely to be huge with the new TV deal, and if the Jets draft a QB as they should, they'll have plenty of cap space to pay any of the FAs they signed this year to 3-5 year contracts. By the time the rookie QB is due to be paid, the FAs the team signed this year could move on and be replaced by players that the Jets have drafted. FA is not the evil that some of you try to portray it to be. It is a totally valid way of addressing needs and helping build one's team, and I'd say that in the Jets' case, where they have drafted so horribly and have so little top talent, that it's an outright necessity if they care about winning or about their fanbase at all.

    I guess maybe I have higher standards than some of you, as many of you seem to be willing to wait and give the team another 5 years to build a winner. Fuck that. If JD doesn't draft a QB this year, I want his ass fired. If he can't have the team in the playoffs in 2022, I want his ass fired.
     
  15. NYJFOREVER

    NYJFOREVER Well-Known Member

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    Because that's just a great way to build a franchise. Let's just fire our GM after 2 full offseasons.

    I understand the impatience but this team is FINALLY doing it the right way. Douglas needs to have a very good draft in April, and if he doesn't, I'm willing to join on the wagon and criticize.
     
  16. 88toon

    88toon Well-Known Member

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    We are the kings of bad timing byz. You and I have been around long enough to know that it isnt the first time and won't be the last.
     
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  17. The Dark Knight

    The Dark Knight Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure what next year's Free Agent class will look like, but the Jets may be making bigger moves then after a year with Robert Saleh. Players will be able to see what he brings to the table with the Jets, and may want to jump on board. Right now, the team is a complete unknown. Free Agents don't even know who the Jets QB will be. If the Jets can have a somewhat successful season, while making progress with all the young talent Joe Douglas brings in, I think it will attract bigger name Free Agents in the 2022 off-season. Time will tell, but I think that is Joe Douglas' plan.
     
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  18. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    IMO if he's so dumb that he doesn't realize the importance of the QB position and can't look at what's going to be available in FA and the draft next year at QB and figure out that this is the year to get a QB, then he doesn't deserve to be the GM of any team, and he's not going to build a winner if we give him 20 years. There are mistakes, and there are fatal mistakes that GMs make. Passing on a QB this year should be a fatal mistake, regardless of the reason (unless of course, one already has a very good or FQB.

    IMO with the opportunities he's had last year and this year, he should be able to build a team that can make the playoffs in 2022. He's had the benefit of two consecutive draft classes that were loaded with talent, and loaded with talent at positions of critical need on the Jets. There have been players in FA also at great needs, and he failed to sign them. Some GMs haven't been that lucky. Some drafts are pretty bereft of talent in general, and especially at positions of need. I'm certainly not defending any of our previous GMs, but how many years were there either only 1 or 2 or no topnotch edge rushers available, and the Jets were never in position to get them? The same goes for QB. There haven't been many times where our GM foolishly passed up on the opportunity to draft a qualty Edge rushing prospect. Unfortunately, Mac did passing up both Mahomes and Watson, although we may have dodged a bullet with Watson. During much of Mac's tenure, many, if not most, of the top players were defensive players rather than offensive players. That doesn't mean that Mac couldn't have done something like trade down, but when you have a GM that drafts strictly BPA and every year the BPA is a DT that's a problem. Douglas hasn't had the problem in terms of talent available in the draft. He may have drafted some wrong players, but we won't know that for another year or two.

    I'm just of the losing and the mistakes/missteps of the Jets. I'm sorry, but I'm not willing to give him 5 years. Other GMs turn teams around more quickly than that and do it sustainably. JD can too, or he can go.
     
    #1538 NCJetsfan, Mar 20, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2021
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  19. IIMeanDeanII

    IIMeanDeanII Well-Known Member

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    A lot of you are acting like we've already built a winning culture that a lot of these players are lining up at a chance to be a part of it.

    There are more players that feel the opposite of what Carl Lawson feels about being a Jet.

    Rightfully so too. IMO.

    People don't realize the reason we've sucked for so long is because we have overpaid In free agency CONSISTENTLY, and have drafted horrifically, we have been used consistently by other players to drive up their price for other teams. The cap only goes so far and If your consistenly obeying the demands of players, agents, and other teams, you're never going to have a team that sets the tone and actually has a winning culture.

    Some of you don't understand the concept of value and worth.

    If you're undisciplined with your value for players you've already scouted in pro free agency, you've already lost because If you can't change the culture from the top, it's never going to translate down to coaches and players.

    I'm actually thrilled with the free agency approach of JD.

    This team is improved. Significantly, at very troublesome positions.

    The young core, and younger players with high upside were given contracts that suggest they are potentially part of the solution for the long picture of this team. With outs If it doesn't pan out. Then he has brought in players for the upcoming season to round out the roster because you need depth and players to round out a roster you simply can't completely fix In just two off seasons.

    We are still building a culture and it's obvious we are steering away from the days where we constantly over pay, get used, sell out, and put ourselves In horrible spots for the sake of bringing in everything with a pulse.

    It's not smart business.

    Value is not a bad thing for us.

    We've still got quality players at the right price.

    Some of you don't realize just how important that is. Which surprises me since we've had a long history of doing things the wrong way for a long time.

    Yet, a lot of you are still banging the table for those proven methods that keep us at the bottom of the barrel in this league.
     
  20. MDJets

    MDJets Well-Known Member

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    JD and the Jets had the 2nd highest $ to spend in FA, and could have at least sign one high marquee players, type A player. Maybe Davis is one of them. But it would have been awesome if he got a high end OL or TE to go with that. I think at the moment I give him a high B+ L. While he got some value deals. 1 year deals, he could have went big one one of them and he didn’t.
     
    #1540 MDJets, Mar 20, 2021
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2021
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