I heard on espn this morning, if Samuels doesn't re-sign with the Pats, he'll more than likely end up with the Jets or the Eagles.
I got news for you: 4-12 is not spin and it's not anything that a rebuilding team HAS to go through in the process. The Steelers have had two double digit loss seasons since 1970 and never lost as many as 12 games in that timespan. Lousy management and poor coaching is what lead to 4-12 last season. You want to call that spin? Well that's your choice, however in that case I'll call that choice what it is: blindness or stupidity.
You're right a rebuilding team doesn't HAVE to go through it, but it CAN happen and it happened to happen to us. It's in the past, we found new playmakers, and Congrats. Thats something for them to be proud of. They've also had the same owners the whole time, and the Rooney's are universally seen as owners dedicated to their franchises. I don't see how that affects the Jets in '08 and beyond. Plus, the Steelers had quite possibly the greatest draft class of all time in 1970...it took two seasons for that draft to start showing dividends. Noll was 12-30 (!!!!!) after his first 3 seasons in Pittsburgh. My guess is that you would have been calling for his head too. But you ignore keeping ignoring that and treating great teams like they just...appear after a little tinkering. And great management and good coaching is what led to us going 10-6, making the playoffs, and being the last team before the Giants to beat the Pats. Is Chuck Noll's stupidity and blindness what led to the Steelers record with him his first 3 years? I mean if he truly was a great coach, wouldn't his team instantly become great under him? Thats how it works right? Still haven't answered the draft question.
Yeah and Adalius Thomas was saying last year that he really wanted to stay with the Ravens, but once New England showed him that money he didn't hesitate. If I remember correctly he signed within like a day or two. He has to say this, any free agent has to keep all his options open. I would like to see us get him.
I have answered the draft question multiple times, but if you have to hear it again: I'd have taken some big bodies in the first 4 rounds to begin to rebuild the lines. I'd have been fine with David Harris on the 26 or the 37 but I'd have wanted some beef to keep the Jets from getting pushed around. This BTW is probably about the 4th time I have answered this same question in the last 3 months, likely in threads involving you in at least some cases.
And having an elite seconary would somehow be a BAD thing? The reason none of those teams have had an elite secondary, is their just aren't alot of elite DB's out there. I'm sure if those above listed teams had HAD the opportunity to make their secondary elite, they would've jumped at the chance! Especially w/ the changing landscape in terms of offensive play in the NFL. It's all about the passing game right now. Look a the second half of the super bowl.
Look at who wins the Super Bowl every year. Count up the number of great defensive backs on those teams. Look at what the great teams actually DO when they have a choice of whether or not to resign a defensive back, even a great one, at a premium. There's a reason that there is a good to great non-franchised CB on the market almost every season, but there is almost never a great defensive lineman. The Patriots dumped elite defensive backs like they had the plague during the early part of this decade and to great effect. They had Ellis freaking-Hobbs playing cornerback for them this year in the super bowl. They had Otis toast-Smith playing CB for them in 2001 and 2002. They had Tyrone I'm not even good enough to have a nickname-Poole playing CB for them in 2003. They had Randall Gay playing CB for them in 2004, with an assist from Troy Brown (a wide receiver.) Cornerback is just not an impact position in the NFL. If it was then you'd have to have a great CB on every super bowl winner and another solid one beside him. The super bowl would be won by Champ Bailey's teams, not Ellis Hobb's teams. The Steelers won the Super Bowl in 2005 with Ike Taylor and Deshae Townsend at CB. Two 4th round picks with no distinction at all to them and neither is starting at this point.
yes I think that samuel is overpriced and we are spending first round money on revis I would rather get some cheaper talent who recognizes that they are not the man. Unless Samuel loves Mangini so much he would take a drastic pay cut its not worth it better to get that guy from San Diego. and I would love to have a great secondary that samuel would fufil by far making us the best in the AFC east (maybe debateable with DEn) but I think that for the pats I think its better if we have a good/ above average skill depth wise than having great starters and then watching the ineptitude of Justin Miller on slot recivers
What I'm on record as saying is "the last thing the Jets need to worry about now is getting another good cornerback, they have many more pressing needs to spend cap space, management effort and draft picks on." Just wanted to get that straight. It'd be great to have a completely all-pro defensive backfield skills-wise. It wouldn't win the Jets any games if the defensive line and linebackers were weak but we'd at least have somebody go to the pro-bowl each year. Just call me the "Aaron Glenn Appreciation Society." Damn good cornerback who was on a team that lost 28 games over a two year period as I recall.
"Some big bodies in the first 4 rounds to begin to rebuild the lines" isn't much of an answer. And whats your logic with using first and second rounders on OL anyway? There were no DL players worth our pick besides Carriker. We got a guy who could easily be argued to be the best LBer to come out of the draft. I still think you should no actual understanding of how the draft works. Theres no OL build on first and second round picks in this league...there weren't any DL players we could get...we actually ended up in the end with one of the better 3-4 end talents in that draft (Brown)...which kind of shows what the talent at that position was like in last years draft.
Steelers: Marvel Smith (LT) 2nd Round 2000 Alan Faneca (LG) 1st Round 1998 Jeff Hartings (C) 1st Round (Det) 1996 Kendall Simmons (RG) 1st Round 2002 Max Starks (RT) 3rd Round 2004 Jaguars: Khalif Barnes (LT) 2nd Round 2005 Vince Manuwai (LG) 3rd Round 2003 Brad Meester (C) 2nd Round 2000 Chris Naole (RG) 1st Round (NO) 1997 Maurice Williams 2nd Round 2001 That's just an example of two big strong physical teams that put their money and draft picks where their mouth is and very successfully try to dominate the line of scrimmage.
I'm not suggesting that both lines are not in need of our attention and most of the cap space should be dedicated to fixing them. We're gonna have plenty of options personel and financially at those spots. This is the point I'm trying to make... 1. Say for instance we fix the OL w/ 2 physical big bodies who can protect the QB and open holes for the running game. Additionally we add depth to the DL as well as a true NT to take pressure off the Lbs and the entire front seven. At that point are we ready for a super bowl run? I would hope most people's answer is a resounding no(Unless of course they live in madden world). We need depth, we need elite talent and we need playmakers. Samuel adds all 3 of those things, and w/ the cap space we have...we can afford to take a shot at him..if the bidding gets out of control, no one says we can't back off. 2.People on this board have no problem if Parcells or Bellicheck goes out and signs one of "his guys" to fill a need or upgrade a position. Mangini is from the same tree and school of thought..and this is a prime example of the theory. Why not let him work the way he learned and bring in a guy that can further his regime and obviously make our defense better?
Those guys range from '96 to 2005 (as in more than 2 offseasons), and a couple of those guys were FA signings. Nice selective memory though...did Tanny and Mangini "put their money and draft picks where their mouth is" when they took TWO O-linemen in the first round of their first draft? Two of the past 3 first round picks have went to O-line...WTF are you bitching about? It's been two offseason. The gap between the Steelers first draft pick on the line and the last is 6 friggin years. You've given Mangini TWO. D'you really think you've done some magic detective work here telling us our O-line and D-line need fixing? We all knew that last year, but NO ONE (not even you Sherlock) thought we would be *that* bad last season. All you've done is complain about how we should have done this or that last offseason...nothing specific either...you just saw that our OL and DL suck this year worse than '06 and alluva sudden you're the only one with a clue and Mangini obviously has no idea how to build a team because the OLs and DLs are perfect by year 2. It make zeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeero sense what you're saying. Jets fans get it. Our coaching staff gets it, otherwise they would not have spent 2 first round picks on the O-line. It takes TIME to build a team. One day maybe you'll get that...I have no idea how you don't get that now since you're obviously not dumb or stupid. Chuck Noll...HOF HC...12-30 his first 3 seasons. Bill Belichick...probably HOF coach...20-28 in his first 3 seasons. Bill Walsh...HOF coach...8-24 in his first 2 seasons. Tom Landry...HOF coach...9-28 his first 3 seasons. I could probably keep going... I'm happy that very few people seem to buy the constant negative bullshit in your posts at least...You don't know anything everybody else doesn't already know...yet you seem adamant that this coaching staff is "clueless" based SOLELY on the teams 2007 record.
I'm not completely sold on Samuels being worth the kind of money he will attract. If you look at the teams that were in the SB competition big game breaking WR seem to be more of the ingredient today than great CB play. The Giants, Cowboys and Pats used that formula to beat up on every secondary basically because the rules simply take away to much of the CB athletic value. I think your basic point is correct that just building our lines will not make us a SB contender and we are either going to need more game breakers on O or an absolute shut down D to become one.
spend the money on the line, on both sides of the ball. it will improve all the players, in the skill positions, we already have!!!
