For sure I am a bottom line guy. That is not generalizing that is what sports is all about. Most fans only see what they preceive as good & never look at the bad which naturally skews the true view of the team. That is why people here call me negative since I am making them look at things they rather not look out nor hear. In business you want to make $$$ that is the bottom line in sports winning championship is the bottom line. In business if you had a worker who was not productive you would fire him so why not in FB if you have a unproductive player why keep him on the team? If that is black & white so be but that is way I ran my business which was very sucessful so why not run a FB with the same credo?
Name me the young guys he did not play? by playing he doesn't mean starting. Guys have to earn their starting positions and some guys it takes longer but if they have the ability he and his staff had them on the field pretty quickly. -In '01 lamont played alot, he never beat out Curtis b/c Curtis was BETTER. Mckenzie was playing in certain situations as a rook then started in yr 2. Moss was hurt his rookie year, played alot as a 2nd yr player and was a starter by yr 3. jamie henderson was playing alot until injuries derailed his career. -'02 McGraw and Thomas both played alot, McGraw was a starter but again injuries derailed. baker played alot early on. -In '03 Robertson started from day 1(shouldn't have but we had no choice), Hobson played alot then started by yr 2, Askew has never earned his time. -In '04 Vilma was playing alot before he took over for an injured Cowart in Week 3, Strait played alot as a rookie, Cotchery played and is now our #3, Jones started in yr 2, Coleman started right away, Cavka would have been starting this year if he wasn't hurt. -In '05 Nugent is obviously our K, Miller played alot and will start next year, Pouha played alot, Rhodes started from day 1, Maddox, houston and Dreesen all played alot. You guys act like he buried rookies on the bench b/c they all weren't starters from day 1. Most of them played alot if they didn't start but alot were not ready to start. You don't just hand starting jobs to players when they haven't earned them.
OK...thats my point exactly. If you took over a failing business with 1000 employees...would you fire all 1000 people? No, you would search for the businesses weaknesses....see those that are putting in a very good effort...and weed out the cancers. My point with generalizing is that for almost a year now, you will not mention any players that you would keep on the team. If I were to ask you if you took over the Pats minus let say, Brady and maybe 3 or 4 of their star players, the Pats become a failure..or an average team. Does this mean you gut the entire team? Of course not. Thats my point about generalizing. You put the Pats on a pedistal...which they deserve, by generalizing that it was a team of 50+ superbowl caliber players.
When did a rookie/young player ever "beat out" a veteran for his position? Most of the examples you're giving here were positions of extreme need where they was no established starter already in place. I'm not saying it never happened under Herm but I'd be more interested to hear those examples. To go along with this point, if Cowart doesnt get hurt Vilma probably doesn't start last year even though he was a better player.
Vilma was playing as if he was a starter, b/c he wasn't technically a starter was meaningless. regardless of whether Cowart got hurt or not, Cowart was playing great early in '04 and he and Vilma would have palyed alot together along w/ Barton. They didn't have to beat anyone out, they drafted guys to take over for certain players whtehr it was immediately or a year down the road they prepared for a loss and drafted for it. They knew they might lose Ryan Young so they drafted Kareem, they didn't know what they had in Coles so they drafted Santana, they thought Robinson was a guy who would be there a year or 2 so they drafted McGraw, they thought Curtis was winding down so they draftd Lamont, they drafted Cotch to take Chrebet's spot and so on. We had talented teams so it wasn't like there was alot of competition for spots but even when we had vets they worked in the younger guys until they were ready.
Do you worked in the NYJ FO? If not how do we know what you posted os correct since over the last 5 years all you have posred is misinformation?
From my point of view, it was more of a "oh shit, we've got no safeties, draft a bunch of guys and hope one sticks". We saw this at the TE position as well and DT to a lesser degree. Sad as it is, Moss was touted more as a special teams player then a WR when he was drafted, much like Miller last year(who did see time at CB, due to injury primarily). Cotchery barely saw the field last season, even with Chrebet out and McCareins woefully ineffective. I'm not going to rehash the Lamont situation but we all know how that ended.
There is NOBODY which I guess you never understood that I would keep or trade if I was the GM if you are talking of 1st level players. Why can you not understand that we have zero quality players at this time that I see as championship players. I would also trade JA & JV since they are the only tradeable players & by the time we may have success they will be long in the tooth. I will dial U up once I see having a championship caliber player. Somebody ask me the other day who were my favorite players. I guess you missed it but all but Cox were from the 60s teams. That says a real whole lot about ALL players since then huh?
Moss was not brought in here b/c of his PR abilities, that was part of the reason but he was brought in to be a game breaking WR. Remember he missed most of his rookie year which really set him back. When you say last season you are referring to '05? Cotch played in all 16 games, we had very little offense and obviously very little passing game so there are reasons he seemed invisible but he was on the field alot. I think Miller saw time at CB b/c Barrett was struggling not necessarily b/c of injury and they signed Law last year knowing he'd be gone this year and Miller would be starting. Last year was his learning year and he showed enough to think he can be a quality CB.
Maybe we spent a little more than we neded to but Robertson was not good in 2004- he was GREAT! he regressed a little this year but he has a world of ability and hopefully he'll revert back to his '04 form this year.
This is where you and I completely go in different directions at the fork in the road. If Jerald Sowell, who was cut from the Jets and gets picked up by the Pats...then the Pats go on to win the superbowl...then the Pats made a good signing. There isnt a team in the NFL that has "zero quality players" never has been..never will be. Im just going to leave it at that. It makes no sense whatsoever. One last question champ: If the Jets had "zero quality players" how did the Jets get to the playoffs and almost the AFC championship game? Great coaching? So if there were "zero quality players", then i suspect you believe this Herm Edwards fella did some job with no players......no?
Cotch played in 16 games because he was a ST player. He did see a bit more playing time towards the end of the year but still not much. The Jets did not use a 3WR set that often and it was pretty much always Coles/McCareins when it was a 2WR set. I remember one game where Barrett seemed to be pulled for his play, however Miller got torched when he came in and Barrett was put back in later in the game. Then Barrett had his mysterious eye injury and Miller took over for him.
He also has a degenerative knee condition and we have every reason to believe that this was the reason for his struggles last year.
He had another injry unrelated to the knee this year which played a role. If it turns out he will never be as good as he should have b/c of the knee then it will go down as a horrible move but if he reverts back to '04 we can live w/ it.
I think that part of the dispute here is your differing definitions of "quality players. Judging from what I've heard from Champ, he seems like an all-or-nothing guy. If it's not great, to him it's not worth anything. Just look at his stance on the Superbowl and Jonathan Vilma. When he says quality players, I think that he means game-changing players, like an LT type who are clearly a head and shoulders above their competition. Problem is, there's only so many LT's.
I'm with you.... And the point that Herm was supposedly a DB 'Specialist" makes my blood boil as well - What the hell was he good at. - Still can't believe people rationize every move he made.
