First Leo Williams then Jamal. Joe Douglas is killing it

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by Brook!, Jul 26, 2020.

  1. Ptflea2

    Ptflea2 Well-Known Member

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    If you say so. Though, if I recall, it was the opposite of what Tannenbaum did his last 3 years = Fuck the draft, bring in older, high priced Vets.

    But yes, everyone agrees.....Idzick was indeed a boob ;)
     
  2. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    I mean it's the same vision as Idzik. Obviously Idzik didn't invent the plan, nor was I trying to imply that.

    But you're ignoring a couple of things with Idzik.

    1) He inherited an old team with a huge cap mess. Mike T. spent like a Miami coke dealer but he also made sure to back load everything to fit it in under the cap in in 2008-2011 so they he could get Rex every veteran player he wanted. Idzik had a lot of old aging veterans that filled out his rosters.

    2) The same team he inherited traded a lot of its draft picks for veterans over the same time period. Therefore he had very limited homegrown talent that could contribute.

    3) Prior to his arrival, the Jets turned over Sanchez's entire skill position arsenal. From 2010 to 2011 the team had the following.
    Out:
    Jericho Cotchery
    Tony Richardson
    Braylon Edwards
    Brad Smith
    In:
    Derrick Mason (cut mid-season)
    Plaxico Burress

    The cupboard was absolutely bare at skill position especially considering that after THAT season, Tomlinson retired, Plaxico left, Santonio was cut and your #1 receiver was Jeremy Kerley and Woody the brainchild brought in Tebow. What a mess.

    4) Rex didn't want to work with him. Woody was only hiring on stipulations (keep Rex/trade Revis). And Rex obviously had a lot more good will with the owner than the new GM did. Sheldon Richardson + Calvin Pryor wreak of being Rex's choice.

    So I mean his drafts SUCKED. But he stabilized the cap situation for the franchise by not making any stupid moves. He also obviously saved that cap space for 2015 after everything was stabilized only for Maccagnan to come in and blow it all on three defensive backs including the same one that gave us the middle finger four times in three years.

    But he maintained discipline in free agency, accumulated picks, was willing to play the long game in rebuilding the franchise rather than doing what Maccagnan did in 2015 and sign everything in sight to turn the record around quickly only to set the franchise up for failure in the long term. Idzik was a good cap guy, and brought Seattle's vision here, he just had no idea how to evaluate talent.

    Similar to how Joe Douglas brings Baltimore's vision here. They're the same vision. Only Douglas has a huge scouting background and Idzik is a mere bean counter.
     
  3. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    IMO when you call it "Idzik's plan" you're giving Idzik credit for something he didn't create.

    I'm not forgetting the rest, but imo you're looking at Idzik thru the golden haze of time. All of the stuff you say here is true, although it went way beyond discipline in FA with Idzik. It was reported that he liked numerous FAs but just couldn't make up his mind and was very slow and hesitant to act. So, I think that "discipline" was as much lack of confidence and knowing what to do as it was actually discipline. He may have had the intent to not overspend on veterans and build through the draft, but one can't do that when one has no eye for talent. We have zero knowledge or evidence that Rex made the draft picks you ascribe to him. The only thing we know is that Tanny gave Rex one mid-to-low round draft pick every year. Idzik may have listened to Rex since he didn't know how to build a team or how to identify talent, but if he had just listened to his scouts, he'd have had to have had better success than what he did. Many fans like to blame the scouts for the Jets' poor drafts, but notice that Douglas hasn't cleaned house. He carefully changed how they were going to evaluate players and what they were going to prioritize. So I don't think our scouts have been to blame. It was the lack of knowledge, training, and innate skill/talent that Tanny, Idzik and Mac lacked. None of the three should ever have been hired as Jets' GM.
     
    #43 NCJetsfan, Jul 27, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2020
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  4. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    I said the same thing back them and was one of the few that thought the fire Idzik billboards were ridiculous. So I'm not really recreating something I didn't think back then.

    It was an organizational failure as a whole. From top vision all the way down. It's tough to always blame individual scouting departments by themselves so I'm not necessarily going there. Scouts compile information, prepare reports and send them in. They're not the decision maker. It's the GM's fault when a bad selection is made and partly a coaches depending on how heavily involved in selections they are.

    Idzik had the right idea. Horrible execution. It happens. He also only got two years, and really one draft with his people. It was exceptionally bad but that was quite a short tenure in a horrible organizational situation as far as owner/coach/situation goes.
     
  5. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    He certainly didn't deserve any longer! He could have totally changed the Jets team and culture for the better with his one draft, and instead it was historically awful. That was a good draft and the Jets could have wound up with a lot of good talent, and he missed on all of it except Enunwa. Someone with his lack of knowledge, training and skill/talent didn't deserve any longer. You were wrong back then and still are imo. I don't know why you like Idzik so much and were willing to give him longer. If he had been GM for another draft, the Jets may never have recovered. He'd have over 20 failed draft picks to his credit.
     
  6. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    The teams that constantly change management from a GM and head coaching standpoint are the ones that consistently fail.

    I wanted Idzik to have one more year with $100 million to spend and see what would've happened. I also wanted him to choose his head coach. He drafted three starters in two years. Maccagnan drafted five starters in five years. It's not like he did a much better job he was just around longer.

    Either way, it's all besides the point. We have a better GM now or so we hope.
     
  7. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    I now you did, and imo you were dead wrong. One more year of Idzik and this franchise would have been such a cluster fuck that no one could have ever fixed it. No team can survive two successive drafts where the entire draft class was a bust, but that's what would have happened with Idzik. He was so hesitant, he'd never have spent that money, and if he had, it would have been too much on the wrong players. You must be related to him or ARE him. You are literally the only Jets fan who thought he was even remotely competent.

    Douglas has done more good for this team in one year than Idzik could have done in 1,000 years, and more good than Mac could have done in 750 years.
     
  8. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    We've survived a decade of busts dude. One more year wouldn't have killed us and you're just assuming the next class would've been just as bad. It may have been. It may have been better.

    Maccagnan was just as bad. But either way Douglas seems to have fixed it and seems to calmly navigate the offseason, draft and such without panic selling, trading or drafting. That's a good thing. Now his picks and signings need to pan out.

    We're a lot better than last year but we're still awfully devoid of talent.
     
  9. dmw

    dmw Well-Known Member

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    Idzik and Magic Mike were both terrible GMs. Their drafts were awful. Douglas' 1st draft appears to be really good, but it's still early. At least he has a plan for this team. In his 1st off-season, he decided to build up the offensive line and did so by signing several value free-agents and drafting a giant left-tackle. So far, he has avoided expensive, over-rated free agents and has held out for value when making trades. So far, so good. I like what I see.
     
  10. NCJetsfan

    NCJetsfan Well-Known Member

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    We'll just have to agree to disagree. I don't think we could have survived another Idzik draft and offseason. Mac was almost as bad as Idzik, but he at least did get us Adams, Darnold, and a few other good/decent players.
     
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  11. 101GangGreen101

    101GangGreen101 2018 Thread of the Year Award Winner

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    Its interesting to see beat writers say oh no the Jets traded these players drafted in the first, but note none of them are really contributing at an all pro level.
     
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  12. TwoHeadedMonster

    TwoHeadedMonster Well-Known Member

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    Joe Douglas looks fat to me.
     
  13. KurtTheJetsFan

    KurtTheJetsFan Well-Known Member

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    Plus Brick & Mangold were extended stayed w the jets their entire career.Sanchez got extended as did Wilkerson which blew up in their face.

    They suck at drafting.Its the root of 95% of their problems
     
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  14. K'OB

    K'OB Well-Known Member

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    Hopefully, in future, we can say 'sucked'
     
  15. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    I agree JD is killing it. I was never as down on mac as most here. I felt he was average not awful but JD is a huge upgrade so far from what i've seen. a lot will depend how his drafts work out but he's set this team up to have a bright future if he drafts well
     
  16. FJF

    FJF 2018 MVP Joe Namath Award Winner

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    I really think Russell Wilson should opt out this year with the newborn and all. Can’t be too safe
     
  17. MoWilkBeast

    MoWilkBeast Well-Known Member

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    Not sure he ever got one year with his own people, as he was lumbered with Bradway and scouting holdovers even after he got to bring some of his own people in. MacCagnan managed to pry him loose fully. Smart guy, right ideas but poor execution in the critical area required to make his strategy work (even if that may not have been solely down him, the responsibility definitely was). I thought what he was trying to do was right at the time. I still do.
     
  18. Darnasty

    Darnasty Well-Known Member

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    If Joe Douglas drafts as well as he trades the Jets will finally win a SB in next 5 years.
     
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