Fire Joe Douglas 2023-24 Edition

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by HomeoftheJets, Nov 19, 2023.

  1. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2015
    Messages:
    14,203
    Likes Received:
    10,165
    he signed people to fit the needs of rodgers. the whole offseason was about courting rodgers
    the obsession with jones you have is insane. he's not even that good and only played a couple games and been alright. he's played less games then WMD
    it's not my plan either. it's just the way the jets are set up right now
     
    nevbeats319 likes this.
  2. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2015
    Messages:
    14,203
    Likes Received:
    10,165
    again this is all the issue of evaluating our players. when your team sucks, fans are down on everyone. I just watched dobbs and fields last night look worse then zach in a game nobody wanted to win. zac taylor is 4-28-1 without burrow. everyone is down on dobbs again and going "oh thats why he's bounced around the league" bears fans are fed up with fields but people here would want him for some reason while others are "fields truthers". fans are just wishy washy and like vent without realizing players are people too and every situation is different. it's not madden where you plug and play a virtual grade number
     
  3. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2004
    Messages:
    32,360
    Likes Received:
    30,722
    There was an hour gap between when you posted the wrong information and my post but ok.
     
  4. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2015
    Messages:
    14,203
    Likes Received:
    10,165
    and like a 5 min gap after I posted that. thats why it's usually good to continue to read a thread out before replying to a singular post in the middle
     
  5. JetDan

    JetDan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2008
    Messages:
    901
    Likes Received:
    643
    What separates you from these conversations? haha

    Of course, what you think is irrelevant- none of us work for the Jets. This is an online forum that is meant for fans to express their thoughts and to converse with fellow fans.

    And yes, we have no choice, the Jets will be running it back with the same staff. That does not mean we have to agree with it and can call out the countless mistakes this FO has made since 2019, and you can continue to defend. All free game
     
  6. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2015
    Messages:
    14,203
    Likes Received:
    10,165
    doesn't it get annoying being so negative all the time? calling out mistakes is fine, every team makes them but you have to balance the good with the bad and look at the big picture.
     
  7. JetDan

    JetDan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2008
    Messages:
    901
    Likes Received:
    643
    It's not being negative, every fan has a different perspective and is entitled to their opinion including yourself.

    This isn't meant for a sob story apologize if it comes off as one, but here is my unique perspective:

    I've been an STH since 1998, and my family since 1978. Like many on this forum, many in my family are getting older, and have stuck with this franchise for 40+ years. 40+ years of pretty consistent losing besides a stretch here or there. Yes its our decision to keep going to games(Which for the first time in a long time, is starting to be questioned)

    Don't you think these fans deserve to see a winner? You think it's totally acceptable to just keep punting away seasons and not hold anyone accountable. This is just (1) year of many that have ended the same way, number (5) with Joe D. "Look at the big picture." What a big picture haha. The Jets still have no franchise QB and are continuing to field a loser. Not just a loser, but a team that hasn't been competitive for an entire stretch of a season since what 2015? Stop settling for being a loser- the franchise needs to raise the bar. Saleh coming out against the Bills and saying "It's a race to 20 points." is an example of a loser mindset.

    As pointed out in this thread multiple times, the result is the result(The metric that actually matters wins and losses)

    Every result has a story as you've mentioned(Injuries to an offensive line, no QB, poor draft decisions) Ultimately, a place like this exists for us to converse and get different perspectives whether we agree or not. I don't see it being negative or positive. Every fan has a unique perspective, so we will all carry on and continue to post
     
  8. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2015
    Messages:
    14,203
    Likes Received:
    10,165
    of course we deserve to see a winner. we've been one of the most inept franchises in forever. I just think the long history of losing makes it tougher for fans to see the current situation objectively.
     
  9. Kronoking

    Kronoking Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2023
    Messages:
    438
    Likes Received:
    296
    My main point there is if people are going to be down on JD as a GM right now it shouldn't necessarily be so largely centered around this past offseason's body of work. At least as opposed to the previous one, and where Woody's meddling fingerprints aren't so apparent. The primary failure at hand and biggest mismanagement of last offseason started with the decision to bring in Rodgers on a terrible contract (even with him taking his "pay cut"), and at too high of an acquisition cost. Period. This was only a win on hype and ticketing selling front. This was *not* a good/smart rebuilding a football team decision. It was basically the poker equivalent of pushing all your chips and going all in with a 8-2 offsuit. Based on a dumb bet mindset that one better defenses in the league should be hyped up to being on some all time greats tier, and that the small sample size of success the team saw early on was somehow a better evaluation indicator then the back end collapse.

    We can be reasonably confident that started with Woody and his big win in all this regardless how it played out. We can't imo be reasonably confident Joe D was 100% bought in to the idea himself, and/or playing some co-championing role in the back round. Again, especially with so many complete head scratching decisions being made in the fallout that defy all reasonable logic, and just default back to a Joe Armchair analysis explanation that clearly the guys GM'ing/Coaching for a living simply can't see or understand what everybody else at home can blatantly see and understand from their couch. That just never adds up as cleanly for me as it may for other people.

    If JD wasn't bought in to the idea then, just like the ongoing rebuild itself heading into last winter...you can basically throw year's body of work right out the window. Leaving the question of is he still a bad GM if you do that, and taking into account where his rebuild effort was at pre-Rodgers? IDK. but I do know this while accepting the current reality for what it is atm. If a new GM was brought in and if you gave me the guaranteed option today to get back to exactly where this roster construction was last offseason 3 years from now....i'd probably take that deal in heartbeat over some wing it and hope for a different result effort.
     
  10. REVISion

    REVISion Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2011
    Messages:
    5,049
    Likes Received:
    8,720
    The explanation for JD's decision to bring in Rodgers is simple - foregoing good long-term moves in favor of short-term ones is what every GM does when they're on the hotseat. JD had 3 terrible years in the books prior to this season, his job security was very much coming into play. Had we not made a splash a la Rodgers, and this season had gone poorly, he almost certainly would've been fired. Every GM prioritizes their own job security over the long-term future of the team.

    This wasn't Woody meddling. Self-preservation is human nature. We've seen it happen with every single one of our terrible GMs over the years.
     
  11. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2015
    Messages:
    14,203
    Likes Received:
    10,165
    I think a part of it is deciding when his ability to run the team really kicked in. some go back as far as 2019 which I don't think is fair. he was hired after FA and the draft and we already had a new HC in his 1st season, a 3rd overall QB going into year 2 and a team devoid of any talent. 2020 was his 1st real offseason but even then he had a failing top pick QB, a coach who wanted him along with bringing in players that coach wanted even tough we all knew he was a lame duck HC. it led to frank gore and denzel mims and more. he also was stuck with some bad contracts from the previous regime like bell and trumaine. So he was building for a lame duck coach, taking a team in cap hell with no talent and trying to fix that while adding players we wouldn't really need in the future. to me his real tenure started in 2021. he got to fire gase, pick his own head coach and start building for that regime. 2021 was rough as he shedded cap and traded what we did have to get future assets. 2022 he was able to really load up. team looked good except for QB but wilson was going in year 2 so you have to give him 2 years. after wilson failed again. in 2023 he went and landed a HOF QB and did what it took to get him. rodgers also came along with a paycut so we could sign some of his people. Sadly rodgers went down 4 snaps in and the o-line has been injured like crazy so we can't really judge this season. I think next year, barring a crazy rash of injuries we can give a good judgement
     
  12. Kronoking

    Kronoking Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2023
    Messages:
    438
    Likes Received:
    296
    The offseason prior to this one wasn't terrible by any stretch.

    We'll also largely disagree that you can just simply summarize up and lump everything we saw happening here in with your typical sports GM in the hot seat scenario. Nothing about this winter's activity was "normal" in that regard. For me there was also about as good of an indication/s of an owner meddling and making a ticket selling/brand power play as you could ever expect to rationally see in today's PR sensitive climate.
     
  13. dawinner127

    dawinner127 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2009
    Messages:
    11,620
    Likes Received:
    12,056
    Heard a question asked this morning so I went digging.

    What GM has the most losses before making the playoffs or getting fired?

    Joe Douglas is currently at 77 games.

    Bruce Allen - Washington Redskins
    • 2010 + 2011 (11-21 record)
    • 2013-2019 - 5 seasons (24-56 record [80 games]
    • playoffs in 2012 at 10-6
    • overall tenure 45-83
    Jason Licht - Tampa Bay
    • 2014-2019 (before Brady entered in 2020 for playoff run)
    • 34-62 (96 games)
    Matt Millen - Detroit Lions
    • 2003 - 2008
    • 26-57 (fired after week 3 in 08)
    • 83 games

    These are the most recent ones that came to mind, but there are way worse GMs that went longer depending how far back we want to go. Bengals owner/GM Mike Brown, went 89-153 which is probably the worst of all time. Some guy from the 50s is also over 200 games.

    Douglas is actually eerily similar to Licht in Tampa. Neither could figure out the QB position, but both have assembled some other talent (especially on defense). HOF QB finally got him over the top (obviously the difference is Brady injury vs Rodgers) and now post Brady Licht is back to looking somewhat mid tier.
     
    ColoradoContrails and Borat like this.
  14. tomdeb

    tomdeb Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2004
    Messages:
    4,341
    Likes Received:
    3,017
    Douglas foolish took Becton, Zach, and McDonald in the first round.
    Ponied up a fortune for the worthless 4 on offense-Uzomah, Tomlinson, Lazard, and Brown.
    Traded for a 39 year old QB, with no backup plan in case he got hurt.
    I don't blame this mess on Woody--Our GM brought us to this point, and our head coach plays all the overpaid worthless vets instead of playing younger better players.
    I really think Douglas, Salah and Hackett are gone after 2024. I don't see the jets much better next year unless Rodgers comes back and reverts to MVP form, but that is a lot to ask with the receivers and OL Douglas has given him.
     
  15. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2018
    Messages:
    4,736
    Likes Received:
    8,018
    I think JD is a mid GM. Not the worst, definitely far from the best. Adams trade and 2022 draft were awesome - last off-season trying to build win now team around Rodgers was awful. Missing on Wirfs and wasting #2 overall pick in 2021 looks bad. He also got defensive minded HC, which ultimately proved to be a huge mistake as Saleh can't find a decent OC plus his philosophy of playing good D and running the ball seems outdated. Could have waited for Daball but didn't want to gamble. In general seems unaggressive and passive when we have needs. That quality plus inability to build the OLine puts him at odds with Howie Roseman, who was his mentor.

    Overall, like I said, mid. Maybe Tannenbaum level. Better than Mac or Izdik. I think just because of this last off-season if the Jets end up winning 5 games or so and don't turn it around, he should go. But I am also cognizant that Woody might find someone worse than JD. So, I really see both sides of the argument but on merit and if you want to strive to get one of the better GMs and not just mid, he should be gone.
     
    #255 Borat, Nov 30, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2023
  16. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2003
    Messages:
    26,071
    Likes Received:
    26,838
    Good research

    Douglas has some work to do if he wants to match even Licht though. At 24-53 his record more closely resembles Matt Millen (26-57) arguably the worst GM of the modern era.
     
  17. Jets79

    Jets79 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2020
    Messages:
    2,676
    Likes Received:
    5,332
    Yes…I agree JD is about mid level GM across the league…not the worst, not the best. I do think he walked into a weird situation where he was saddled with a lame duck guy in Gase and he was hired after the offseason free agency and draft period, so you can almost say the first year to year and a half on his watch are kind of wasted years since he was picking players for a different coach and system.

    That being said, he’s made some very good to great draft picks, and he’s botched some…unfortunately his biggest bust is at the QB position, but outside of a few sure fire guys like T Lawrence, drafting QBs is always a risky proposition. I get the decision to go get a franchise guy…but he missed on his assessment. The other picks we can question…Becton vs. Wirfs, McDonald vs. an OL or a WR, etc. Same in free agency…some really nice signings like Huff and Quincy Williams, and some bad ones like Lazard or Tomlinson, etc. But really you can play that game with every single GM in the league. No one bats 1.000.

    All in all, I do believe the roster is better than when he got here, especially on D, but the glaring holes are on O, and the inability to field an above average OL after so many years is a huge fail. I get injuries, but still…it should be better than it is. He can’t control injuries, and it’s not like he’s signing injury prone guys, but there are definitely steps he could have done differently leading up to this…he could have tried harder to keep Moses, he could have drafted other OTs last year, etc. It’s partly out of his control with the amount of injuries but in the end he’s the GM and he owns it. He should have done better.

    All that being said, I absolutely am afraid that if Woody were to fire him, it’s more likely than not that we end up with someone worse. Look at his track record. Most of Woody’s hires, at GM, at HC, have been shit. He hired a fucking consulting firm, he went to NFL pros but unfortunately chose Casserly (Ugh) in doing so, etc. Whatever he’s tried has almost always failed.

    So a big part of me wanting to stay the course is fear of doing worse…I think JD knows enough to see that he has to fix the OL and improve the WR room. I’d like to see him do that and go from there.

    I totally understand moving on from him based on his record but I would be super worried that the next guy Woody hires would be worse…
     
    ColoradoContrails, SOJAZ and Borat like this.
  18. Acad23

    Acad23 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2008
    Messages:
    25,773
    Likes Received:
    20,203
    24/53 is pretty damning.
    If you can't General Manage a team to above .500 ball after five years you suck at your job.

    That's all the objectivity needed.
     
  19. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2015
    Messages:
    14,203
    Likes Received:
    10,165
    after 5 years jon lynch was sub 500 with the niners.
    he got lucky with purdy as well. if he was trotting out lance or darnold right now people would be complaining how he's wasting a great roster because he can't find a QB.
    there is more into a record then just the GM. I judge a GM on the roster itself talent-wise. I judge a coach on their record and I judge players/coordinators on film. I also am understanding that sometimes injuries can ruin it all. it's like being a master welder but your shit keeps breaking and people are mad at you for taking so long. it's not a reflection of your work, it's just bad luck sometimes.
     
  20. JetDan

    JetDan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2008
    Messages:
    901
    Likes Received:
    643
    I saw this comparison recently and I don't think it's great. They made the SB in the year (3) which would buy any GM time at least another 3-5 years.
     
    JohnnyJet and Acad23 like this.

Share This Page