Fire Joe Douglas 2023-24 Edition

Discussion in 'New York Jets' started by HomeoftheJets, Nov 19, 2023.

  1. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    but to me, it falls on the coaching staff. brown said he came back too early. he was solid last year. this year he was clearly playing hurt and it hurt his performance. burrow was shit the first 3-4 weeks because he was hurt. brown had 0 practice before the game. the CS should have never played him. we should have had becton start at LT, gave tippman the start at RG and AVT at RT. even then AVT barely got to practice either and he's not gonna play at the start of next year either now. it was really just mismanagement by the CS

    as far as the cancer thing goes. again doctors assumed it did so anyone who got cancer they would see if they were a smoker and if so they blamed cigs because they really had no idea. nowadays they say everything causes cancer pretty much. correlation =/= causation.
     
  2. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    I understand, Hack sucks at his current job, but hear me out. This is a classic Peter principal - as simple that. Hack was competent at his job as a guy who designs plays, he seems like a good motivator, maybe works well with QBs and holds a clipboard for an actual play caller and brings him coffee. MLF did have him on his staff for several years, and Hack did help them reach #1 offense. The problem is that he got promoted to be the play-caller, and he has no clue when each play should be used. He is incompetent in that role. Hence if he is brought back to the role he is competent at, he can actually be a good asset. Just like Saleh, I wouldn't mind him to be a DC.

    But sticking with Hack, if we do fire Saleh and bring a competent play caller (current successful OC) as a HC, Rodgers give us the best chance to win in 2024. Which means we have to incorporate something in the playbook that he is familiar with. This is a perfect role for Hack, who could be like an assistant coach or something. He played that role well with MLF and he can actually help new coach create a play-book. It will be much easier in fact to integrate with him there. So, as bad as it sounds to keep Hack, he might play an incredibly important bridge role for the new coach, and be quite competent in it.
     
  3. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    hackett was the playcaller in GB
    Also once rodgers is done I don't want him back. he's one of the ones who doesn't deserve anymore time.
     
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  4. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    AVT is not a RT, and I already told you the ways JD could have addressed it, there is no need to rehash. We can disagree. I do agree coaching had a lot to do with it too, not just JD. The current staff on offense seems incompetent. It's a package deal I think. I don't think JD will be allowed to work with a 3d coach. Running it back is dangerous too. We can just be so much better on offense if we get someone good to call plays with Hack holding clipboard, even with Rodgers at QB. And definitely if he gets hurt. I also think new GM can do potentially better being more aggressive with OL.

    But let me ask you this, say we finish with 5 wins, do you really think we should just run it back? And what will happen if Rodgers will get hurt again?
     
  5. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    we don't have a choice. it really doesn't matter what I think. I think thats what separates me in these conversations. What I think is irrelevant. many years ago I thought we should have traded back for lamaar jackson. would have had the 3 2nd rounders we gave up plus whatever we got in the trade back. It was stupid at the time to some, but in hindsight would have set us up to be contenders for a while. no need for me to dwell on it. I look at the current situation. rodgers likes hacket and can overcome bad play calls with audibles. the players respect him and will rally behind him. we can help the o-line and WR group in the offseason. why not give it 1 try. we are committed to rodgers money wise, we can't just blow things up around him and waste his final year(s) whats the difference if we suck again? then we can eat cap, blow it up and start over after that. we still have a young core on cheap deals but we'll have to trade them away for picks and hope to land a FQB in the draft and start over. realistically the whole staff was given a hall pass once rodgers went down. nothing is going to change, so why bother?
     
  6. Kronoking

    Kronoking Well-Known Member

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    I think the the productive way to frame that all up is to answer those questions yourself:

    Do the Jets sign Lazard if Rodgers isn't here? Do they maybe sign OBJ instead? I already read and commented on your super reachy take on the same question I could ask on Hackett, and which i noticed you didn't choose to push back on. But curious on your open take there regardless.

    And why do you keep going back to cutting Davis btw. Rodgers wanted to win here. Scripted cookie answers in the media and click chasing speculation aside, cutting him to make room for OBJ was an arguable step backwards as far as on-field expectations went. Davis with the opportunity to finally play with a better QB was one of the more "real" stories to look forward to coming out of the winter. Cook also plays a different position and filled a different offseason shopping need. Once Lazard signed why wouldn't Rodgers have preferred to alternatively try and upgrade both areas?
     
  7. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    This is not an unreasonable take. Not my preference but if it happens, JD would really need to step up his game when comes to offense, which he didn't do this year, this is what concerns me. Why would he do it next year? This is the same guy who had Mayers higher than Broderick, who thought Duane was a good option for LT, who before the season completely unprovoked was saying how good OLine is. I am just concerned, that's all, but if he does stay I hope he focuses on OLine and #2 WR.

    Also, MLF called plays in GB: https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...the elements both,been the Packers head coach.
    "One of the elements both LaFleur and quarterback Aaron Rodgers credited Hackett for during his time in Green Bay over the years was his red zone game planning, but LaFleur has been the actual offensive play-caller the entire time he has been the Packers head coach"
     
  8. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    this was a poor offseason for JD no doubt. we didn't really have money or a ton of picks. we kinda blew our wad last year. he had 3 good moves really. he extended Q and quincy and traded for rodgers. sadly 1 of the moves died after 4 snaps. sometimes you can't do a lot in the offseason. thats how the NFL is designed. better teams get hamstrung by late picks and no money while worse teams can spend and get better picks to catch up. it creates parity and the NFL is the best at it out of all the major sports.

    as far as MLF calling the plays, I wasn't aware hackett had no gameday responsibility or input. really only makes him look worse. After 2 years of MLF (our MLF) I wanted to keep him, thought he was a scapegoat. I give more patience to people then most other fans but i've been done with hackett for weeks now already in his 1st year and fully understand why the broncos canned him. as much as sean peyton is an asshole and shouldn't have said it, he was right about hackett.
     
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  9. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    This is not a productive way at all, but an incredible reach, and a wrong question to ask. If you are buying a car and ask someone who has this type of car, what his experience was and the answer would be positive, you then buy the car, and it does not perform well with someone else at the wheel, and you don't like it, it is your fault first and foremost. Yet who knows, maybe if you were not given good feedback, you wouldn't buy it. Doesn't matter. YOU bought the car, YOU are responsible. Don't blame anyone else.
     
  10. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    It's not the lack of assets though that caused poor offseason, I mean he signed a bunch of players who did nothing, including Duane for 10 mil he could have waived. The fact he did not evaluate Broderick well, can't get a good offensive guy with later picks, was passive at deadline, gave up a pick swap with still days left before the draft, didn't get another QB, etc.. It's just a lot of things happened where most fans knew better than he did. Anyway, there is no need to rehash, but I am concerned. It just seems like maybe he got burned out with long Rodgers wait or something, I don't know. Wasn't aggressive at all. It's possible JD is washed at this point. If we do keep him I hope I am wrong and he can rise again :)

    As far as Hack, do we even know if he can call good plays with Rodgers? MLF is still in GB can't do it for him. And if Rodgers is hurt again? He is certainly not leaving if Saleh and JD stays. Your plan is not unreasonable, but very very risky, and I think if we end the year 1-9 or so, that risk will outweigh the reward.
     
    #230 Borat, Nov 27, 2023
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2023
  11. Jonathan_Vilma

    Jonathan_Vilma Well-Known Member

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    Hackett was not the play caller in Green Bay. I swear dude you just make things up that help your argument.

    2019
    2020
    2021
     
  12. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

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    WTF? If Saleh gets fired Hackett is the first one out the door. There’s no scenario where Saleh is fired and Hackett is retained
     
  13. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    I just explained the scenario. There is no scenario he is the play caller, but the new HC will decide whom to keep and whom not to keep, that's how it usually works.
     
  14. BrowningNagle

    BrowningNagle Well-Known Member

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    yeah and the first thing the new coach is gonna do is fire the guy who oversaw the 32nd ranked offense
     
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  15. Borat

    Borat Well-Known Member

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    It's at a different role though. He will not be overseeing anything. Like how MILF oversaw one of the worst offenses with us, but was still hired by a very reputable HC McVay for a smaller role where he does not have to call plays. And for Shanahan too he was good at a smaller role. The point is that the new coach may decided to keep him at a different role, which he was actually good at. Or he can fire him, but Hack might actually be useful in transition in a smaller role if we have Rodgers still. Like he was in GB.
     
  16. Kronoking

    Kronoking Well-Known Member

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    There is no scenario Hackett gets fired while Rodgers is still in the building.His fate isn't tied to Saleh.

    There probably unfortunately is a world where Saleh gets fired and Hackett fails upwards to HC though. Which would in theory kill 2 birds with one stone under current reality conditions. As Rodgers gets what he wants in his keeping Hackett around demand, Hackett gets put in a glorified cheerleader position where he can arguably do less overall damage, and we are allowed to open the door to finally adding a legit offensive mind to the coaching room to try and fix this ongoing mess (which should of been priority #1 last winter regardless, and even before concerning ourselves with who was gonna be the can't really fail upgrade to Zach).

    Only The Jets :)
     
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  17. Kronoking

    Kronoking Well-Known Member

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    Of course the potential problem with that evaluation take is it basically hinges entirely on Rodgers being JD's idea, and not something that was forced upon him. Which taking into account some of the absolute baffling behavior and decision making happening from the get go begs some question put to that imo (such as the absolute need to prioritize a message in the media to assure everybody the Rodgers trade was 100% happening over and even at the expense of his own negotiating leverage on the comp front before it even had. That was all him and not somebody on marching orders from Woody? I mean...c'mon. Give a little credit to the guy as a GM). As that decision essentially closed the door on much of what he could have alternatively spent the offseason doing, and how the roster ended up shaping out. If Rodgers wasn't his call or final say decision this offseason likely looks a lot different, and it's not crazy to think it wouldn't be outside the media selling the "to the Superbowl!!" pipedream:

    1. You don't make the worst OC hire in NFL history, and simply ignore the surrounding reality that was likely going to be an absolute terrible pairing with a strictly defensive minded HC.
    2. You don't have to be much less aggressive then a lot were initially hoping in the OL free agent market while needing to account for the huge influx in Roders' accompanying cap expenses.
    3. You don't have to pass on a fair amount of clearly better NFL QBs then Zach Wilson who all went on to sign fairly inexpensive 1 year deals to be backups elsewhere. Some who had arguably better advanced QB metrics then a declining Rodgers last year mind you, and which again was still leaving Zach in a position to be the go-to behind a 40yo QB not named Tom Brady. Not to mention make it much less likely due to financial considerations that you cut bait on Zach.
    4. You don't have to pass on a more legit playmaker WR in Jakobi Myers to pair opposite of GW, and instead topped the market paying MORE money out to a new always questionable hands and non playmaker #2 in Lazard.
    5. You don't hand over the opportunity to draft what was by far the team's greatest area of need in the 1st round, and instead put youself into a position to end up panic picking into a weekly healthy scratch candidate on defense in a "go for it now" year.
    6. You don't hand over a second round pick this year and next, and which among a plethora of other roster upgrade possibilities likely would have otherwise left you in a great spot to trade up for something else.
    7. You don't have to feed the ticket selling hype train and throw a large chunk of what little crucial financial flexibility you had left going in to the season away on an aging and clearly in decline RB. Which beyond putting a bad after-logic spin on the decision to take yet another now weekly healthy scratch candidate RB with your 3rd pick in the draft, wasn't arguably even better then an already in house MC still on his rookie deal.
     
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  18. tomdeb

    tomdeb Well-Known Member

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    Good points all. But we all know, Douglas, Saleh and Hackett will unfortunately will be back in 2024. They have too much invested in Rodgers to make any change. After the jets stink again in 2024, Woody will fire Douglas (whose contract will just about be up), and Hackett and Saleh. My concern THIS offseason is that Woody will give Douglas an extension since his contract is getting closer to expiring (June 2025). Chris Johnson foolishly did that with Bowles and MacCagnan. After consecutive 5-11 seasons, Chris Johnson for some unknown reason gave them both an additional guaranteed 2 more years to be added to the one guaranteed year left on their contact. Of course they sucked again the next year and both were fired--Chris Johnson then had to eat/pay them for the additional two guaranteed years he foolishly added. Why would anyone guarantee two additional years to a coach and GM after consecutive seasons of losing more than 2 out of every 3 games? Only the jets.
     
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  19. Cman68

    Cman68 The Dark Admin, 2018 BEST Darksider Poster

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    With this leadership team not being held to any standard of success, I can see this entire FO and CS being here in '25 no matter what the record is in '24. There will always be some excuse why they should be given "one more year".
     
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  20. GasedAndConfused

    GasedAndConfused Well-Known Member

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    you're a little late to this convo lol
     

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