I can’t believe this is thread three and there are this many pages.... this QB issue is good for business.
He most definitely did. I don't think a QB has ever walked into such a favorable position in NFL history. The coaching was there, the defense and specials amazing, with a great Oline and run game to boot. Put brady on a shitty team as a high draft pick, with bad coaching, and I'm certain he would have flopped. He needed a favorable landing spot, and he got possibly the best one ever.
BacktoQueens, I agree with most of your posts and like your username, but this is one we are going to have to agree to disagree on. Brady had a LOT to do with the success that the Patriots had and for MOST of his time there, he had pretty shitty weapons on offense especially at the RB and WR positions, compared to somebody like Peyton Manning during his time in Indy. Regarding the defenses he had, yes most of the time the Pats had good to very good defenses, but let's not overrate their D's...they never had a defense like the mid 80's Bears or the Steel Curtain or even like the 2000 Ravens. and more to the point, saying that Belichick "developed" Brady implies, at least to me, that he actually was instrumental in Brady becoming the QB he became, "developing" Brady's instincts as a QB, his accuracy, leadership abilities, ability to read a defense, etc. IMO that is giving Belichick FAR too much credit...Brady was destined to become an ALL-TIME great due to his innate ability and his drive to be the greatest ever. Did landing in New England help him as far as winning as many games as possible, as opposed to landing in Detroit or Jacksonville. Of course it did, but IMO Brady was going to be a HOF QB wherever he landed. He is arguably the greatest QB to ever play.
No, I didn't know what you meant. No one said that we had to agree, but I don't see any of what you claim to see in Simms. I see him as earnest, candid, and a grinder to get things right. I'm actually mystified at how/why you think he takes himself too seriously and is such an egomaniacal douchebag. I'm not really a fan of his or anyone in the media, but I respect his opinion because he has been right so much on QBs. Actually, I think I had only listened to him once or twice before for short snippets, because I don't like the podcast that he's on due to the co-host, whose name escapes me at the moment. IMO how accomplished a QB was has little or nothing to do with how knowledgeable they may be. Have you ever heard the expression, "Those that can't do, teach."? Sometimes those who can't play all that well make great coaches, analysts, etc. Conversely, oftentimes the greatest players make awful managers, coaches, and analysts.
I disagree completely my man. With everything. Belichick was extremely instrumental in developing Brady as the ultimate system QB, and even curtailed a system to enhance what he did well, and what he didn't do well. Quick reads, short throws, don't take any hits. That's what Brady needed, and that's exactly what he gave him. He also spent countless hours breaking down film with him, teaching him how to read defenses, preparing, etc.. Brady has said so himself. And don't even start me on the weapons or defenses. He had it all in spades, and way more advantages from a full team perspective than any other QB. Of course Brady was the perfect fit with coach and team, and instrumental in that success. But it wouldn't have happened at all in a less than ideal situation, like say the expansion Browns. He wasn't destined for anything, and was a 6th round pick for a reason. He wasn't even a very good college QB. Not the type of talent that would've succeeded anywhere, he needed the right place. In fairness tho, I would say most QB outside of a few need that.
We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one, NC. Being a successful manager or coach is FAR different than being a credible analyst. Does not having a great career automatically disqualify one from being a credible analyst? No it does not, HOWEVER all else being equal, I would value the opinion of someone who played the position at a very high level in the NFL over someone who most certainly did not, simply because I would expect them to have a deeper/better appreciation of what it takes to succeed playing that position in the NFL. Nobody ever suggested that Simms lacked the physical ability to succeed in the NFL...so his problems must have been on the mental side of the equation....and if that is the case, why would I trust him over guys like Young and Warner, when evaluating a prospect's ability to mentally grasp the perils of playing QB in the NFL when he fell short himself in that regard. To me that is kind of like saying, "Even though I could never figure it out for myself, I am now ability to predict which guys will be able to figure it out and which won't. Trust me." It is almost like you are holding it against guys like Young and Warner that, unlike Simms, they did "figure out" the NFL on a mental level. It doesn't mean that they are always correct, but I would trust their ability to analyze and prospect and tell me "yeah this guy has what it takes to figure things out at the QB position" over a guy who never figured it out himself. Regardless, I always enjoy your posts and will just have to respectfully agree to disagree with you on this one point. To each his own. I realize I am in the minority, since most of TGG seems to love Simms, and that is fine.
haha, fair enough, BacktoQueens. I respect your opinion, but I disagree. I think you severely underrate Brady as a QB. He was destined for greatness, and the only reason why he was a 6th round pic was because his skillset was severely undervalued by everyone in the NFL. He was a very good college QB at Michigan. The reason why he lasted until the 6th round was because the NFL gets waaaay too caught up in a player's physical attributes, ESP at the QB position, which is one of the most mentally grueling positions to play in any sport. He was also a 6th round draft pick because his college coach wasn't exactly brilliant, and opted to continue to play Drew Henson even though Brady was the superior QB in college for a variety of bullshit reasons. Brady was also an excellent deep ball thrower, so you are selling him short when u say that he is a "system QB" and needed a "curtailed/limited system to succeed full of short throws." The few times he has had a legitimate deep threat (Moss in 07) he has bombed the hell out of NFL defenses.
I know you were speaking of the mental aspects, and I agreed with that. My point was that to the Panthers, having a similar QB and keeping the system the same might be more important than having a QB who was better with the mental aspects who could be a mentor, but it would mean that they would have to change the system somewhat, it not dramatically.
Your right bro. I really would be thrilled if we got Chase and think he's an all pro prospect. I'm just sold on Smith because of his upside. I feel pretty confident Miami has Smith #1 on their board and he will be their pick. Waddle would be great also. I cant wait to see who they choose. Either way, Miami is going to be scary this season.
Apropos of nothing, Metcalf has one of the most incredible combine percentile graphs in the history of the NFL. It's one thing to be good at some things, and deficient in others, but what Metcalf did is mind boggling. From an odds/statistics standpoint I think about this specific image more than I should. These were his percentiles rankings in the combine WR pool:
I not sold on him either but they are going to set him up with some high powered toys this draft. That wont hurt him. Miami is going to have so much talent soon that he wont have to be a top 10 QB and they'll still have a shot at the SB.
He did draft him and keep 4 QBs that year which defensive coaches never do. Those 2 decisions alone helped develop Brady and that was all Belicheck
Brady was drafted to cheat. He was the guy holding the clipboard on the sidelines with the ball cap that he kept turning around backwards on his head. The way he held the clipboard and the position of the ball cap were signals to the team on the field of what formation and likely play call were coming next. Matt Cassel was version 2.0 of the cheating backup QB. Then Eric Mangini blew the whistle on Belichik and that modus operandi was toast.
